This strat is really ruining team games right now. Otto grenadiers really need to be nerfed. They kill everything except for melee cav and then also destroy buildings quickly. Skirms should really kill them but they don’t win in a fight and are too slow to kite. It says a lot when Otto players mono comp Grenadiers and stop making abus, abus are such a good unit but why make abus when you can do all the same and also destroy buildings as well.
In games where you go late and there are high unit counts the problem is exacerbated because melee units (the cav that is the only counter to grenadiers) suffer with pathing and each finding a unit to attack. The goons then kill the cav.
In general I think something needs to be done so that the average Otto player is force to play properly and not mono comp.
The grens need to have 4 speed, and the age 4 discounts need to be cut in half minimum.
Another consideration would be cutting the ranged armor entirely. They only really need siege armor. If they want a gren that counters artillery, then it should be much weaker vs cavalry and Skirmishers.
It seems like Grenadiers have an identity crisis in that they don’t have a well defined role that is implemented correctly. They either get over used or under used depending on buffs/nerfs.
A line needs to be draw in the sand, Grenadiers should not kill skims. They kill enough other units, heavy infantry, cannons, light cav and buildings.
i thinbk otto grens are quite easy to kill with skirms, especially after 3x, and they only 30% RR. Goons also die to skirms. so you just need skirm for grens and goons
Late game they are a huge problem. Otto gets an over 20% discount, they outrun Skirms and just go for the factories. 50 of them can also usually steamroll a standard number of Skirmishers as you usually have artillery or anticav as well. 16 range and close to 5 speed makes kiting near impossible.
All high-speed high-siege units are going to be toxic. That’s the most toxic combo you can give to a unit.
@wiraqocha9917 I’ve found that skirms work well if they are relatively tanky skirms, but if your skirms rely on ranged armor then the grens bypass that.
They’ve been nerfed a number of times since DE (Cav box, and I believe siege was reduced too), but I think the most important thing is that most civs have a counter unit that is faster (Dragoons and CA). It’s not true for all civs, but it’s true for about 17 of 22 (choosing not to count Japan even though their light cav has 6.80 speed).
Otto Grens outrun most skirms and take damage a lot slower (meaning more time to siege). They also preform better in direct combat.
I’d be fine with nerfing Opris more btw, so “don’t threaten me with a good time”.
If I my expand on what @Notonline1 said, Ottomans are currently one of the best civs in the game, and Russia isn’t preforming well in the current meta. I’m not sure if they’re actually bad, but the map pool and some of their counter-civs (Otto and Germany) being in the ascendancy makes them underperform their actual strength.
Just a random thought. Maybe we could make the Grenadier have a train limit, like 10 in the Commerce Age, 20 in the Fortress Age, and 30 in the Industrial and Imperial Age. Then after its stats and cost get tweaked, it could even use only 1 population space, from the beginning or by a card’s effect. In this way, they should be easier to gather, but won’t be able to make up the entire army, especially over time.
