They literally shred all other heavy cav except for teuton paladins (and leitis).
And btw for way less gold than other civs. Which is a very important factor for heavy cav in the lategame.
I also don’t understand why we talk about fights with other cav civs all the time. If Poles have a weakness it is most likely (cav) archer civs in the lategame, not other cav civs.
I hope Poles won’t get any changes besides minor tweaks if really needed.
Szlachta Privileges is fine tech - -60% gold cost only for Knights, need castle, need extra time to research and ofcourse you have to pay for it, while there are Berbers who got -15% cost on both food and gold and discount applies to every Stable unit + they have access to Camels, while Poles don’t.
13 dmg trash unit with 6 PA would be so broken, even before accounting for the Trample damage UT. It would basically have same statline as Malians Champion for similar cost but also with massive mobility on top which is worth A LOT.
I actually think Poles need a small nerf to their mining bonus, from 50% gold collected it could be 35-40%. To compensate this nerf, maybe Folwark could give 15% resources, idk rly. Main goal of the nerf is not allowing them to do a relatively fast Castle by playing Scouts, going to Stone and then not having to pay 100w for mining camp around gold and as soon as you hit Castle age you can drop a defensive Castle and boom with Folkwark. Not saying this style shouldn’t be viable but currently it feels a bit too strong.
What would be the point of Polish paladin? you have to rebalance then the Winged Hussar and the UTs because with Paladin will be beyong ultra broken
Malian light cavalry says hi.
u confuse w/ armour upgarde. paladin dont the husars.
but no it wont cuz now their the worst hussars.
u dont wanna meele fight others with em and their trash at evrything else
Evidently you didn’t read my post in the first place. I suggested a nerf of Szlachta Privileges alongside to keep this change balanced and buff their weak Imperial Age in exchange for a nerfed Castle knight rush.
Besides they also get destroyed by Heavy Camel Riders and several unique units with equal resources. As an example Leitis and Coustilliers as can be seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwLdFvMnPRo
Cheap Heavy Cavalry is great but in the Imperial Age Polish Cavaliers really can’t be called that anymore.
Paladins would be excesed. Their WH are actually so strong and pay 30g for a Paladin is too OP
Don’t get me wrong, I agree with all you said besides relying exclusively on their win-rate. I don’t want the 50% to deviate by a lot (ideally not at all) and the Bohemians need even greater balancing in the regard you mentioned.
All I’m asking is for the Poles to be less overpowered in the early game and more viable late-game which to me seems similar to your request about the Bohemians.
While I don’t like rhw idea of them with paladins either he did say he wanted to nerf the discount some.
This isn’t about them but arguably they are the worst:
if we add leithic legacy they are good vs inf, archers and can handle some cav, but you are the expert
Do you believe they can cost effectively trade against Halberdiers? Their trample damage is so hard to use in practice I mostly don’t invest into this tech unless it’s maybe a Black Forest game.
+1 to this. They basically do really bad vs Fully upgraded Cavalier (and by extension Paladin) as is expected from Hussar, but trade well against Hussar, trade better vs Halbs than all other Hussars (still not an engagement you want to take of course), and they do a TON of damage to archers. a FU Cavalier has 16 damage, WH get 9 base, 4 from blacksmith, 1 from bonus which already adds up to 14. When you get a surround, the trample damage will be usually at least 2 extra damage. So they have the potential to do as much damage as FU Cavalier. As a trash unit.
So they are really like glass cannon. Miss armor, die easily, but do high damage.
Why change the identity if it works fine as the win rate seems to suggest? Before discussing anything about balance I want anyway to see how they perform within a tournament.
The theme of the Poles is anyway not quality but quantity in terms of units (with maybe the exception of the Obuch which seems like a overall very solid infantry unit which works best paired with other units).
i dont count Halberdiers obviously, only swords
I dont wish to change them like that
I highly disagree here. SotL is not the expert and he even forget about the fact that Polish Winged Hussar has extra damage against the archers, skirmishers, cav archers and unique archers. Polish Winged Hussar with that damage and splash is pain for person who want to squeeze his Arbalest in one tile near forest.
Huge regards to devs that they decided to not making Polish Hussar just simply the best. Polish Hussar has different role to others and it is clearly visible. PWH is still strong raiding unit, but enemy base defenced by archers and castles will most likely stop raid which is fine considering the fact that Poles are really offensive civilization and with their UT and strenghts you always want to be on offense.
I’m sorry, but all what I see is that you simply don’t like Poles or they are not designed for you, which is fine since game has 39 civilizations with different gamestyles.
That’s a fair take. I’d like to hear your opinion about them lacking punch in the Imperial Age.
Obuchs hold their own against many units but always require at least one castle and if that gets destroyed it’s comparably harder to get their production back running.
Plus I disagree with the claim I’ve heard that Obuchs alone can substitute Halberdiers as a cost-efficient Cavalry counter - getting destroyed by Leitis, Paladins, Konniks, Boyars, Cataphracts, Elephants etc. even given equal resources.
Since the Poles miss at least one crucial tech for each unit type in Imperial Age (Paladins and Plate Barding Armor or Ring Archer Armor or Halberdiers or Siege Onagers and Siege Engineers or Dry Dock and Shipwright)
- do you think allowing them to specialize in something besides trash units - in exchange for a reduction of their Castle Age dominance - would be justified?
Just give Poles full armor upgrade and maybe halberdriers, but not necessarily. Armor is a must