# Palmaryans Villagers **URL:** \ **Category:** II - Discussion\ **Created:** [June 20, 2022, 5:35pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/palmaryans-villagers/206825 "2022-06-20T17:35:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ifavorwining](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/ifavorwining/32/97523_2.png) [@Ifavorwining](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Ifavorwining)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 5:35pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/palmaryans-villagers/206825/1 "2022-06-20T17:35:25Z")
Palmaryans were an interesting idea In Aoe1 they cost 75 food and work 25%(not really) This Is a really interesting gimmick and one that is hard to balance since you could have an unstoppable Eco advantage iron age but in reality, you mostly died to early aggression because you are stuck in the stone age and in AOE1DE they gave them +50F and eventually 75. I haven’t played AOE1DE So I don’t know what i’m talking about, but everything about their design is both very interesting and incredibly hard to balance. It would take a miracle to make them equally viable on both Arabia and Arena. So feast your eyes on this Gordian Knot that is my attempt to import Palmaryan Eco into Aoe2 while also being balanced. - +50/75F starting food - Vlllager cost 65F villagers - Villager get +10% Gather rate, carrying capacity, building, repairing, and attack speed. These are all calculated additive meaning after all other upgrades so that they become slightly less Op as they get upgraded - All food sources last 10% longer - Insert military bonus here - Team bonus: villager get +1MA I also recommend a weaker than average post imp tech tree Edit: I should of made it clear Im not trying to import palmaryans I trying to make a civ with similiar eco. sort of like how Hindunistas are a more balanced verison of shang. ---
**Author:** ![DynasticPlanet5](https://forums.ageofempires.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/e495f1/32.png) [@DynasticPlanet5](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/DynasticPlanet5)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 5:44pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/palmaryans-villagers/206825/2 "2022-06-20T17:44:01Z")
The villagers from the OG game weren’t working 20% but actually work rate +.2 which sounds weak until you realize wood for instance has a normal father speed of .303 for instance. So the balancing act is tricky. Doing a gather rate additive like that would be nuts for this game. ---
**Author:** ![Ifavorwining](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/ifavorwining/32/97523_2.png) [@Ifavorwining](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Ifavorwining)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 5:50pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/palmaryans-villagers/206825/3 "2022-06-20T17:50:10Z")
I specified additive because otherwise it would be ambiguous wither FU lumberjack gather at +65% or 60% ---
**Author:** ![casusincorrabil](https://forums.ageofempires.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@casusincorrabil](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/casusincorrabil)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 5:50pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/palmaryans-villagers/206825/4 "2022-06-20T17:50:59Z")
We already have aztecs vills in the game that effecively work like 3-4 % faster. That’s a really stong bonus already. (was nerfed bec of tis and still is kind of op). ---
**Author:** ![DynasticPlanet5](https://forums.ageofempires.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/e495f1/32.png) [@DynasticPlanet5](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/DynasticPlanet5)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 5:51pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/palmaryans-villagers/206825/5 "2022-06-20T17:51:55Z")
There’s 3% and then there’s 56% going from .304 To .5 gather rate All things considered I’d be for a meticulously balanced villager civ with a bonus with this nature. But be very careful. If you had 20% better villagers but paid 20% more food per villager you still have a huge advantage with Unchanged train times and pop space so they’ll eventually pay for themselves and then some. ---
**Author:** ![Ifavorwining](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/ifavorwining/32/97523_2.png) [@Ifavorwining](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Ifavorwining)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 6:04pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/palmaryans-villagers/206825/6 "2022-06-20T18:04:50Z")
that depends entirely on how (in) efficient your eco Layout and what resource you are gathering and what upgrades you have. and yess +10 percent is very strong but it is hopefully balanced out by 65F which should mean you will by very susceptible to laming and feudal age aggression. We would likely need a lot of play testing to determine if this civ is UP or OP or both. ---
**Author:** ![MatCauthon3](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/matcauthon3/32/29474_2.png) [@MatCauthon3](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/MatCauthon3)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 6:05pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/palmaryans-villagers/206825/7 "2022-06-20T18:05:14Z")
> [@DynasticPlanet5](#): > > If you had 20% better villagers but paid 20% more food per villager you still have a huge advantage with Unchanged train times and pop space so they’ll eventually pay for themselves and then some In the late game anyway. In the early game youre seriously hurting ---
**Author:** ![DynasticPlanet5](https://forums.ageofempires.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/e495f1/32.png) [@DynasticPlanet5](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/DynasticPlanet5)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 6:11pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/palmaryans-villagers/206825/8 "2022-06-20T18:11:02Z")
That depends. 20% faster farming might be too much? On top of Briton level sheep gathering seems pretty strong. Maybe very early it can be rough but might start skyrocketing faster than it should. I’ll trust your higher elo judgement and numbers however. ---
**Author:** ![MatCauthon3](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/matcauthon3/32/29474_2.png) [@MatCauthon3](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/MatCauthon3)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 6:13pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/palmaryans-villagers/206825/9 "2022-06-20T18:13:33Z")
> [@DynasticPlanet5](#): > > That depends. 20% faster farming might be too much? But when your villagers cost 20% more that increase is nullified. Yeah when gou get to the point where youre doing more then judt making villagers it starts to go in your favor but before that youre hurting. Youre also forcing yourself to farms in dark age as you eat up more of your free food for villagers and have less for fuedal. Overall though i think it would be better as a smaller bonus for smaller increase ---
**Author:** ![Akoskaaa10](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/akoskaaa10/32/29945_2.png) [@Akoskaaa10](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Akoskaaa10)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 6:17pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/palmaryans-villagers/206825/10 "2022-06-20T18:17:25Z")
This is the gimmick the devs will to add. I don’t mind it actually. ---
**Author:** ![SirWiedreich](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/sirwiedreich/32/125515_2.png) [@SirWiedreich](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/SirWiedreich)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 6:18pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/palmaryans-villagers/206825/11 "2022-06-20T18:18:02Z")
> [@Ifavorwining](#): > > Palmaryans were an interesting idea In Aoe1 they cost 75 food and work 25%(not really) This Is a really interesting gimmick and one that is hard to balance since you could have an unstoppable Eco advantage iron age but in reality, In theory I like this idea, and some of the more extreme bonuses of AoE1, although they were harder to balance. I also like the idea of tradeoffs of higher cost/better performing units, although this is almost entirely absent from AoE2, which is unfortunate, since it adds a whole other dimension of flavor and balance. Villagers are probably the hardest (and most important) unit to balance, but I think something like this could be done. ---
**Author:** ![Ifavorwining](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/ifavorwining/32/97523_2.png) [@Ifavorwining](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Ifavorwining)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 6:18pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/palmaryans-villagers/206825/12 "2022-06-20T18:18:49Z")
> [@MatCauthon3](#): > > In the late game anyway. In the early game youre seriously hurting Absolutely, I tried to address that by giving them faster attack and 1 MA and 10% longer food. I scraped +10HP but that could be brought back though i dont think it is necessary. And about their late game Bengalis have Manyana which makes there villager cost .9 pop (Which is it own can of worms) so this isn’t unprecedented. and about the faster villager Plus 10% percent is actually decieving because it is additive meaning as they get more upgraded it will become less effective. ---
**Author:** ![MatCauthon3](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/matcauthon3/32/29474_2.png) [@MatCauthon3](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/MatCauthon3)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 6:18pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/palmaryans-villagers/206825/13 "2022-06-20T18:18:56Z")
I do like the idea of strong bonuses with obvious trade offs though. ---
**Author:** ![MatCauthon3](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/matcauthon3/32/29474_2.png) [@MatCauthon3](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/MatCauthon3)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 6:19pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/palmaryans-villagers/206825/14 "2022-06-20T18:19:51Z")
> [@Ifavorwining](#): > > Yes I tried to address that by giving them faster attack and 1 MA and 10% longer food. I think its absolutely necessary to keep them weak because in the late game thwy are going to be absolutely dominant ---
**Author:** ![Ifavorwining](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/ifavorwining/32/97523_2.png) [@Ifavorwining](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Ifavorwining)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 6:21pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/palmaryans-villagers/206825/15 "2022-06-20T18:21:27Z")
I agreed I dont want them to actually Implement it though. but I am trying my best to make it balanced they have way to manying bonus which should shows you my struggle. ---
**Author:** ![Ifavorwining](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/ifavorwining/32/97523_2.png) [@Ifavorwining](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Ifavorwining)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 6:28pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/palmaryans-villagers/206825/16 "2022-06-20T18:28:21Z")
Maybe the 10% food should probably be removed if this civ is OP. +1MA armor is an absolute FU to militia, M@A I am fine okay with that since M@A would be a strong counter but as a team bonus that is too powerful. I would probably replace it with +4HP ---
**Author:** ![DynasticPlanet5](https://forums.ageofempires.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/e495f1/32.png) [@DynasticPlanet5](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/DynasticPlanet5)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 6:29pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/palmaryans-villagers/206825/17 "2022-06-20T18:29:09Z")
That’s true but also remember with better wood than Celts that might not be a major issue. If you are in this hypothetical situation aging up on 20ish% less villagers then you age up a bit sooner than most. Maybe I’m missing something here. I don’t think it would take long to stabilize however ---
**Author:** ![MatCauthon3](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/matcauthon3/32/29474_2.png) [@MatCauthon3](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/MatCauthon3)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 6:34pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/palmaryans-villagers/206825/18 "2022-06-20T18:34:15Z")
Shrug. Doubt such a thing happens either way. Would be blatantly overpowered. ---
**Author:** ![Ifavorwining](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/ifavorwining/32/97523_2.png) [@Ifavorwining](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Ifavorwining)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 6:36pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/palmaryans-villagers/206825/19 "2022-06-20T18:36:35Z")
1. I Probably have undiagnosed Dyslexia and I didn’t anticipate this level of traffic so please forgive my grammatical errors. 2. I’m am since I am undecisive about wether they are UP or OP so my prescription are often inconsistent based on the opinion of the person Im talking to. 3. Does anyone play AOE1DE we need someone who has experience with competitive Palmaryans to have an informed opinions. ---
**Author:** ![casusincorrabil](https://forums.ageofempires.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@casusincorrabil](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/casusincorrabil)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 6:46pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/palmaryans-villagers/206825/20 "2022-06-20T18:46:22Z")
> [@MatCauthon3](#): > > Would be blatantly overpowered. well actually… if it’s indeed 65 food and 10 % higher gather rate it can be balanced. But withouth food lasting longer bonus. Need to see if 50 more food in the beginning are enough or 60 is a better value. But with the standard amount of food from the sheep, berries and hunt it would mean when you made 20 vills you are behind 240-250 of your free food. This would lead to very unique buildorders and I don’t think it would be Overpowered (except maybe in maps with a lot of food on). [Next page](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/palmaryans-villagers/206825.md?page=2)