Patch suggestion by several experienced players

I think that the bug of the prelates has to do with the bad early game of HRE.

I would give Burgrave a little less creation time, from my point of view.

The Landsknecht, although by design it has a low life, is seen by many players as a unit or something expensive or with very little HP, that is where the balance should go.

I think your wording on this is kinda rough and doesn’t properly explain what should be the focus when changing them.

For Horseman I’d propose a damage buff against siege engines to further strengthen their idea of being used for flanking. This could also help combating the issues bombards in late-game generate.

HRE Landmarks:
Burgrave Palace is lacking compared to other Castle Age Landmarks as its bonus can be easily replaced by spending 750 wood on building 5 Barracks.
Meanwhile other Landmarks in that Age provide either unique technologies (House of learning, Abby of Trinity) or provide unique units/interactions (clockwork, compund of the defender).
The opportunity costs are simply too high especially when compared to Reignitz but also fall behind in the grand scheme of things.

Please take my whole post and proposals with a grain of salt as I’m in no way close to being a top player


Let us Delhi boys have some peace of mind without the bugs. :disappointed_relieved:

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What I understand about Landsknecht is that they have probably considered that they die very quickly and it is expensive.

About Burgrave, iam agree, a bit less production time would be the best option, although the Landmark doesn’t seem as bad to me as you say, the problem is that the Cathedral is very strong.

The Mongol nerf suggestion is beyond imagination.
Feudal ovoo would make them a defensive civ because they are not early aggressors anymore with a 20-25% decrease in stone collection rate and 50% decrease in cost.
They will lick the floor and will turn into the worst civilisation.

Right now the Mongols are more of an infantry one.
It needs infantry nerf and buff to cavalry.
because historically it is 100% cavalry civ.
For example, AOE 2 gives a 30% bonus HP to light cavalry as a bonus. Could be something like that and nerf infantry as I don’t like to see it in Mongol civ.

Mangudais definitely need a buff against cavalry and siege. bcse they are useless against any ranged unit and has the shortest range of all ranged unit.


I have edited the last of the Mongols (it is to choose 1 among the 3, not the 3). They have suggested that the Mangudai be somewhat cheaper.

By the way, logically the Mangudai is made to lose against ranged units (except perhaps the crossbowman) and be effective against the vast majority of melee units.

The issue with Mongols being an infantry civ isn’t an issue with their bonuses, it’s more a generic horseman suck so their only real option is archers or Mangudai (although mangudai are a bit on the weak side). Archers are just the best generic trash unit so being able to double-produce them cheaply is really powerful.

They do need some kind of dark age stone nerf whether that is moving feudal, making stone more expensive or nerfing dark age gather rate, because the boost is just too overbearing on hybrid maps or with tower rush.

Mongols are so overtuned right now they would need a lot of nerfs to turn into the worst civilization. A ~62% winrate is just insane.

The problem with Mongol is Spear and counter Cavalry too well while Mangudai aren’t really good at fighting back at those units unlike AoE 2.

The most important thing is that all civilizations are competitive on the vast majority of maps and I think that most of the points in this patch would be a good start in the right direction.

The issue with horseman definitely isn’t that spears are too good, even if they opponent doesn’t build any spears, horseman are still pretty much unused by any civilization. Mongols do frequently go lancers as they are actually a strong unit right now. It’s just there’s no real mounted unit that is very buildable other than scouts in dark/feudal ages.

Yes, they can go Lancer but they have to avoid any engagement and wait for Archer/Mangonel to deal with enemy Spear, so yeah going full cavalry isn’t viable.

If they don’t have overwhelming eco bonus like they do right now, you wouldn’t even see Lancer

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Well the biggest mongol bonus they have in regard to eco and military is double production units so because of that they will just build the best units which right now are lancers spears and archers. Its still an rts so if your opponent goes full spears you shouldn’t be able to just go full melee cavalry and win anyways as that would be horrible balance. (knights are pretty ok vs spears as it is already).

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NICE POST. It’s a shame we wont see a patch till march and even then I dont think any of these changes will happen


This is bad news :guardsman:t3: :guardsman:t3: :guardsman:t3:

Yeah which are literally useless apart early game which is not the case when you rush III with RUS all the time right?

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As soon as other civs dont have an answer to smth, you should nerf it, instead of buffing all other civs.
Ofc there should be buffs, and ppl mentioning them …

There are a lot of posts, that collect ideas to buff civs, where they have a discussion on what should be buffed and what else could be done, to make the civ also more interesting to play.

But nerfs are needed more then buffs atm. If they have to prioritize what to do, they should go for the nerfs first and then focus on the buffs. Keep in mind every nerf is also a buff for something else…

Something overpowered is harming the gaming experience way more, than something useless.
There are also exceptions, like the horseman.

Buf fixing and nerfing should be priority at least for the big obvious issues in the game.


Professional Scouts shouldn’t be nerfed, imo. Doing it well is a huge investment. 60food x 3, for effective pick-ups, sometimes more, 75 wood, and 275 gold. A more proper way to adjust the meta around it is to make it so that you have to choose between fast farm economy + preserve gold, or sink gold + preserve wood for early production buildings.

Reignitz should not need a nerf. A civ opposing HRE should simply anticipate fighting over relics. To that end, map generation needs a tweak as well. I think that HRE in any given game should be able to secure at least 2 if they put in descent effort. The fight should happen around the 3rd relic. Given that HRE has nothing special going for them militarily until Castle Age (even their MAA are not THAT great until you get the hammer), they should be able to devote more food into getting more units and skimp out on villager numbers. To do so, they need mechanics that makes villagers more effective at gathering and passive income mechanics.

The French should have their villager production the same, imo.

Would love to see 100 to 200 food reduction in building costs for Chinese landmarks.

What civilization is your main?

Not a huge fan of high trade house suggested buffs, landmark is already great especially if you are late to the relic game and/or you need more deer kills.

I suppose that on the vast majority of points you will agree.