what are peoples thoughts on english, so far since coming back to the game i feel they need some tweaking, right now they are actually so powerful its silly and almost off putting to enjoy the game, this is not exactly a good way to improve balance, nor is it a decent way to bring more people into the game. also having a white tower slammed in front of your base then rams spamming from them is not even a fun way to play the game, its so toxic its unreal.
3 Likes
I am also hardstuck in Gold because of imbalance otherwise I would be at least in Conqueror III.
Hopefully this makes you feel better since you are seeking a validation of your assumptions.
2 Likes
English is good, unlike its previous seasons, it no longer has a strong weakness during castle age anymore. Though, it might have a strong army composition, its economy during feudal still falls behind other civs.
I think the main reasons many people hate English is mainly because
- Its ability to rush in dark age (MaA rush and vills rush)
- Strong feudal army (access to MaA and longbow)
- Tough to raid English due to TC double arrow and network of castle
- Late game trebs, NoC
Which I think the first two affect English haters the most. Though, it is not really OP if you handle it correctly, it might still be troublesome. Those two can be implement easily part of it is because the old unnecessary buff that was introduced a long time ago when English was considered a mediocre-bad civ. So I think to nerf English, it might be good to start with reverting 50 extra starting woods and MaA training time back to 23 Sec. If it is not enough, then reduce the training time buff of white tw to 50%. Furthermore, TC double arrow could also be tuning down a bit as well. That should be fairly sufficient.
1 Like
i’d say that English is very ‘adaptable’ to any situation, rather than powerful. He has answer to every matchup and situation as long you scout properly, hence why the 1/3 difficulty and recommended civ for beginners so they can learn the game faster. Their feudal eco is only great with farms, but that still need time and can still be raided with horses or knights. The only military unique tech is Armor Clad (setting aside the NoC), which only provide +2 melee/pierce armor while Crossbows give dozens of attack bonus against english. They have enclosures, sure, but it can’t replace gold miners completely.
They doesn’t seems that op now, isn’t they? Though the +50 wood still need to be removed, i think
white tower buff was so unnecessary if they remove that %100 fast unit production i think its fine
2 Likes
The thing is that English is good in every regard. They can do everything and have no real weaknesses, while Network is still insanely strong and just makes the English army better than the other armies since it applies to every unit with 15/30%. Also Network is way too easy to establish (a single tower suffices) and there is no real way to punish them for it. Their defense is impeccable, their offense is insane and their eco allows them to just turtle… Despite the nerfs the English boni are still too strong. Everything is good about the English, so I actually expect them to be nerfed further. It is unreasonable to be the easiest to play and the strongest civ at the same time. And are Wyngard footmen still without counter? Crossbows didn’t do bonus dmg to them last time I checked.
Many other civs are not that versatile, but harder to play. Those civs should get more options altogether, so that they also feel as powerful through the board as the English do. Imo English made the balance worse for the game. Ottomans are also too strong, esp. because of the Mehter in combination with free units, fast production. cheaper buildings and so on. That’s just off, the Mehter is too strong. And something seems not right with Malian archers. It is a bit silly how good they are. It’s just a hunch, but sometimes I feel Malian archers do more dmg than the should, How can 30 archers with 9 dmg 2 shot a knight with 6 armor and 230 hp? That’s 90 dmg per volley, yet the knight died. I’ve seen that on Beasty’s stream and couldn’t test it myself, but it seemed that 30 archers (7+2 dmg) two shotted a full hp knight (6 armor, 230 hp). And there was no poison arrows. Beasty himself was in quite some disbelief. It happened in a stream 3 or 4 days ago. And then there are Warrior Scouts… -_-
There is a lot to be done balance wise. I am not saying the balance is terrible rn, but it most definitely cannot be called good either. And I have not even talked about water balance or trade, two other rather big issues that are not in the best spot. Some civs are just too good on water, other civs too good with trade and trade altogether is way too lucrative. I think the way it is in AoE 2 is much better. Trade takes longer to establish and the ROI is also much worse. Feudal trade also is not a thing. And losing many traders actually hurts a lot.
4 Likes
I never have enough wood as English
From what i hear, they’re over respresented in lower leagues, part due to the ease of picking up the game with the civ, but probably more because of the recommendations following it.
Because of the general inexperience prevalent in lower leagues, its common to see balance complaints raised; balance can be perceived as a more tangible problem than the knowledge you don’t have.
I cant comment on balance. I’m very sceptical to people below pro-level that does. I’m tryna get back to conq this season after a yearlong hiatus,so im a potato - i effectively have more holes in my understanding than i have understanding. There’s nothing I lose to that I couldnt have beaten with a better skillset, and that includes english.
Below pro level, everything is balanced by putting you up vs players of equal game input. Even if a civ is better it doesnt matter, your enemy’s (player skill)*(civ strength) will still be equal to yours.
There’s also different strats of different civs being of different difficulty to excecute as opposed to play against at different levels, and that will never be balanced at each league. Thats fine.
That said, there’s the fun factor. We still want a fun game, even if it’s only balanced for people making a living on it. But just because we want a fun game doesnt mean we should assume the game needs to be changed whenever we dont have fun.
In your example of the white tower, the game was over 5+ minutes before it went up. I havent lost a single game to an offensive white tower in 1500h of games. Everything else that happened after the white tower seemed like bs, because the game was already over, but you didnt know. Its very easy to be tricked by scenarios like this and have your analytic mind pulled away from key strategic and tactical pivots that led up to it, especially when you dont have many models of what to look for.
If you want a replay analysis of how to smash the stuff you’re struggling against, id be happy to help.
Gl on ladder.
English have on problem on balance because they have no weakness anymore. Previously they were a bit weak in casstle age because they need to produce archery for have crossbowmen and counter armory army now they have all they want. because you gave them 50% faste cossbowmen on feodal landmark… give them crossbowmen why not but at 50% seriously ?
I think the analyse of the strong point from jaysus is good.
They have so much option and are really to strong and easy to play.
They are strong in feodal with best archer and pikemen combo.
They have the safest food of the game with cost effiscient farm. They have not to move on the game map for food…
If your opponent boom with 2 tc you just have to put a second TC and go casstle age with TC monument and you have the same eco than your opponent.
You loose all your battle and lost map control? who cares you just rest on your base make 80 farm and spam MAA/crossbowman and treb in imperial age … with 0 merchant because the nerf of passiv gold income is just a joke.
If you have the map control it’s more simple because you put your last broken imperial tower landmak in front of enemy base and the monument do the reste for you …
This civ is just the derpest at the moment.
For ottoman good rank you need more skill because you need to win your fight,you need to know Q click for win with your unbelieavable army… but for english you just need to launch the game.
2 Likes
Also hard to do early horsemen/pikemen harassments because of the villagers long bow.
Thats why I like them
Well English have got their strengths and weaknesses. Overall they are a civ with an average win rate. They are in a pretty decent spot as shown here.
2 Likes
English have a sub 50% winrate.
They may have some individual things that need nerfing (I think White Tower needs a slight nerf), but expecting heavy nerfs, like some people want, is unwarranted.