Performance Comparison: Svan Towers vs Yeomen

Why do you think so? Saracens had a monk UT for most of the time.

Mostly just because I think the old UT (Zealotry) was fine. Apart from consolidating redundancies it wasn’t something begging for change any more than most of the other one-effect UTs that buffed stats (e.g. El Dorado, Bearded Axe, Sipahi…). Whether or not any of those civs gets the effect for free and a shiny new UT seems capricious.

There’s justification for Saracens having good monks of course, I just think the effect is a little boring - monks doing monk things passively doesn’t seem that exciting outside of its relative novelty as another aura effect. I would have preferred it as a civ bonus tied to monasteries instead (buffed by Herbal Medicine), but whatever. Maybe it’ll grow on me.

It seems like the devs are trying to slowly bring new mechanics to old civilisations so they don’t feel as outdated and it doesn’t always have to be a big overhaul like for the Persians.

Updating boring UTs is a good way of doing that.

Oh you mean removing Zealotry is random? I thought you meant new monk tech. Yeah. I had nothing against Zealotry. I have a feeling they changed the UT for its name…I mean that won’t be a surprise.

Yeah, I’d revert Zealotry to +30 HP and change the +10 HP to something more historically accurate - Free Bloodlines or Husbandry or cheaper cost for these 2 techs in some way or a CA bonus that they used to have.

I’m happy to see some of this. But turning every UT to aura effect also getting under my skin. 11
Celts Castle healing was enough aura effect on old civs imho.

It is even not helpful to the Stronghold. Still a niche UT. Also, having a building with 2 types of ranges is personally very annoying. There are too many circles and squares on the ground.

Its healing aura should be given to Saracens’ Monasteries as part of the new UT’s effects. Then, the Stronghold may have a new effect, such like the units and techs in Castles can be trained and researched in towers.

I think Auras are generally a nice game design.
Basically every AoE4 civilisation has a unique Aura system (mostly for buildings) for a reason.

Auras are the most flexible mechanic because they can do totally different things, 10% more efficient villagers is very different from passive healing or 20% faster attack speed.

There is also the potential for Auras that only affect enemies (like reduced attack speed or something like that).

But I agree that they should also bring some other new mechanics to old civilisations, not just Auras.

From Unique Units:

  • Unit gets better stats when more of the same unit are around (Monaspa)
  • Melee unit can damage 2 units in a row (Ghulam)
  • Unit can dodge ranged or melee attacks (Shrivamsha Rider)
  • Unit with AoE damage but only on charged attack (Urumi Swordsman)
  • Unit can change between two modes (Ratha)
  • Unit reduces armour (Obuch)
  • Unit that can build something (Serjeant)
  • Charged attack (Coustillier)
  • Unit generates resources while attacking (Keshik)
  • Unit transforms into other unit on death (Konnik)

I didn’t add ignore armour to the list because that has been used enough now.

From Unique technologies:

  • Upgrade Costs replaces with other resource (Hussite Reforms)
  • Units transform into other units once (Flemish Revolution)
  • Units take less damage from certain units (Royal Heirs)

Other:

  • Building that can move (Mule Cart)
  • Certain units/technologies are available earlier (Persians, Armenians and Burgundians)

There are a few things that have never been directly done:

  • Units receive less normal damage (melee/pierce)
  • Aura that affects buildings not units

There is probably a lot more that I forgot.
I also excluded super specific things like the Hussite Wagon, I don’t think that could be used for other units too.

Old effect was so bad that it was not even noticeable and I asked it to be a generic tech. And new UT is not that good either as you said. The healing aura part can easily be a civ bonus.

I always believed after Persians, Celts needs the rework. However getting last archer armor will change it to just UT - Stronghold changing imo. In fact, I think all 3 OG West European civs Castle AGE UT should be changed and I have something in my mind for all of them.

I guess we just need to agree to disagree.

I think about it a little differently because all existing auras take some previously existing unit or civ bonus and make it contingent on proximity to a host unit/building. For example, the Berserker’s regeneration bonus has been around since AoK.
Caravanserai: Berserker ability when trade units are around the Caravanserai
Bimaristan: Berserker ability when units are around Monks
Stronghold: Berserker ability when units around a Castle

Similar cases with other aura bonuses, where the Centurion ability is just a mashup of the existing Celt and Japanese infantry bonuses, and the Georgian Monastery ability is a stronger version of the Roman eco bonus.

It can make unit interactions more interesting and adding some of them definitely spices up the game, but…it’s easy to go overboard on spice, which IMO they did in the upcoming DLC by making so many things function so differently. The more aura abilities they add, the less interesting they tend to become, especially if they overly rely on existing mechanics, like the healing example earlier. On the whole aura abilities are a net positive and have added another dimension to the game, but I don’t consider them inherently good or inherently more interesting than other types of bonuses. Just that they’re newer and relatively less saturated, but like any bonus, they can still be poorly designed.

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Eh, I’ve never say the new UT of the Saracens is good. I said, let’s put healing aura of building from the Stronghold to that new UT, since that aura doesn’t really help the Stronghold more useful, and it actually fit the theme of the new UT.

Goths first. 11

No, no. I mean Celts healing aura UT.

Right. But I don’t think devs will do that.

I’ve never say the Stronghold is good either. I’ve said the healing aura doesn’t help the Stronghold. It is still a very niche UT even after having the aura. So that I want the healing aura be part of the new UT of Saracens for their Monasteries, and give the Stronghold something new.

I realized that. Just clearing my comment.