How come it could be endless if you’re losing 100 food and 75 gold(and possibly a WE to enemy) per a unit? Still less OP than Paladins with regenerate ability imo.
Keep Mahouts, maybe make it a bit more expensive and give a slight resistance to conversion for Elephants along with the speed boost. Then the tech wouldn’t completely suck.
I’d also consider readding the old +5% work rate bonus to the civ, because it kind of was one of the main reasons to ever pick this civ.
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fair point, though conversion resistance for elephants kinda scares me, though it should not be that much of a deal in imp
Actually yes it would be ok to keep Kamandaran in Castle Age. It wont change much for the hypothetic new UT, because siege is less a threat in Castle Age too.
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i think that too, however it is hard to think of an applicable UT without breaking the Persians
also agree this makes sense. i think myself (and possibly other players) have repeatedly suggested putting it in imperial, because
- its an expensive UT, drum roll please… 400F!!!
- gold isnt that precious in castle age as it is in imperial, i would rather spend the gold than lose the food
so a lot of times we will produce xbows even without the UT… like making magyars before taking their UT…
but i guess by putting it in imperial it removes an option of getting the spam going earlier.
and by putting it in imperial it makes the potentially more attractive new UT more flexible, whatever it is…
so i guess each has its own merits…
would you remove paladins from persians? or have a UT that doesnt affect the highest level of the unit?
regenerating camels are ok, because they arent a meta power unit, or the best raiding unit in the game, giving regeneration to one of those is either going to have to be super weak (ie useless in aggressive games) or will be OP
yeah i think we would all prefer to keep the stronger buildings, maybe there’s another UT then?
lel you would rather keep it the way it is? and have a super expensive war ele? or would you rather have a more accessible war ele? be serious now…
units need counters… THE MOST COST EFFECTIVE UNIT IN THE GAME doesnt need to be conversion resistant as well…
i like the idea, but gunpowder sucks goat balls… so until they fix HC, i would rather have any other tech…
if for example persians had 2HS, they could roll 2HS + hussars with war eles, and have a counter to all the ele’s counters. but as it stands they are much weaker in the anti spear game than a lot of cav civs…
Gunpowder included BBCs and cannon galleons…
It’s the least cost-effective right now. Try using WE in castle age now, it’s basically gifting resources to your opponent. They are slow and expensive, even with mahouts.
In imp, their main downside is their cost, which would be unchanged.
With some conversion resistance, you may be able to kill the monks before they convert at least, right no eles are too slow to even retreat if a monk pops out. At least like this it may be situationally viable to create a few eles.
Just because a unit has a counter does not remove it’s general cost-efficiency. The War elephant happens to also be absurdly population efficient as well.
As if there’s no precedent whatsoever to have a unit that isn’t very good in Castle age.
Giving a unit any amount of resistance to it’s main counter, whatever the unit is tends to be an absurdly poor idea. You aren’t supposed to make units better against their counter. You make the unit better against things that aren’t their counter and you rely on compositions that support it.
Persians have the only tool that matters, the Scout line (fully upped at that) to handle monks. If your opponent is getting free conversions on your Elephants it’s probably your fault and not worth complaining about on the Forums.
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I would probably cut elite upgrade cost. 1600f 1200g is insane
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I can’t imagine wanting to make WE in Castle Age at all. They’re abysmally slow, 5 WE cost the same as the Imperial Age upgrade in Food, no Mahouts.
Actually I wouldn’t know how to even make it work. 5 WE and some Xbows?
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Whats the logic of non elite in castle age…u can do non elite in imperial age. It is already better than elite battle elep. I would do 25 non elite over 15 elite for same cost
Sure, because war elephants are constantly being used in 1vs1…These units do not ever see use in 1vs1, how that is balanced in your mind, I don’t know. All units should at least be situationally viable.
Have you ever played teutons? You trade speed for conversion resistance. Pikes are still the main counter to elephants, are it should be.
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They are situationally viable. Either you don’t know what “situational” means or you’re exaggerating, neither of which makes a compelling argument.
Their lack of use in 1v1 doesn’t automatically make a unit bad, since we don’t balance for purely 1v1. If that were the case we wouldn’t be continuously nerfing Battle Elephants.
Further, be honest, even if you did see them in 1v1 you’d still think exactly what you do about them now, so that’s all just complaints with no actual justification. If Daut played Persians today, and did a surprise elephant switch you wouldn’t bat an eye. Don’t even act like that’s not true. So it’s irrelevant.
No, you trade speed for surviving an extra hit against halbs, multiple extra hits against everything else that does melee damage, and conversion resistance. To insinuate that the conversion resistance wasthe important bit of the Teuton military bonuses whilst they went under the radar for practically ever with an extremely solid eco until they got the extra melee armor is lacking substantial evidence to say the least.
Mahouts should also affect allies, the tech is good in its concept but still the unit is too expensive, but what if it also affects the other elephant civs, then it would justified the research without boosting a civ that doesn’t need anything else.
Well imagine Khmers BE faster than halbs 
2 Likes
Useless with like the majority of civs while also making Khmer eles OP in team games again 8and you were sooo vocal with Khmer OPness)
There was nothing wrong with khmer eles on late imperial, it was always the fact they could reach xbows in castle age and also melt buildings which is not a thing anymore, BE were over nerfed, mahouts could have apply to other ele civs even the ele archer, giving something unique and not broken.
I like this But i prefer only a buff to their elephants and not to castles.
Like this:
War elephants +25% speed (still -0.1 speed from that of battle eles), cost changed to 190F 80G
Élite war elephants +30% speed
Mahouts in castle age and changes effect: -30F cost of elephants, cost 200F 300G.
in a 1v1 War Ele is very viable, as a superior flex. If you can afford that unit, you’ve definitely won the game already. It’s like an outpost rush, but with gold and food lol