Persians buff theorycrafting

[thieftdp8498]

2x TC HP starting in castle age

[Davyman3583]

@ElizaKolmakov

You do realize that pure trash wars happen at like 1:30 which is in less than 1 in a thousand games, right?

Games where gold runs low happen quite often. Oftentimes you save your last couple of thousands of gold for siege (and maybe some upgrades). That usually happens way earlier than 1:30 into the game. I at least encounter that frequently (but I’m also a boomer boy maybe that’s why 11).

@ElizaKolmakov

Even then a lot of civs are able to keep a backline damage dealing unit like Arbalests, HCA, Mangudai, War Wagons, Conqs… That is going to be a lot better than trash CA without bracer.

Sure a lot of gold units will be better but I mean just compare to FU arb. One less atk and two less range but 2 more pa, 50% more hp and mobility. So it depends a bit on what you fight but against most ranged units your trash cav archer probably is significantly better than regular FU arbalest.

[AllergicTable49]

@ElizaKolmakov

It’s literally has only 2 bonuses lmao.

Yes and?
I dont mind another bonus, I said eco bonus, why would you give it an eco bonus, while they’re having one of the strongest economies in closed maps. It doesn’t make any sense, Persians boom can potentially keep up with Cumans boom or Indians boom.

@ElizaKolmakov

Better against halbs, and more DPS per wood. Make them lack HCA and Bracer (as they do already) and it’s balanced.

Nope, it wont be balanced.
Again, you underestimate the power of CA in late game, regardless the price, there is no such thing “value per wood” in AOE. No reason to make Trashbows at this point, CA+Thumbring + Full Armor + Parthian Tactics AND to top it all, a fully upgraded Hussar to form a doomsday composition.

It doesnt make sense.

@ElizaKolmakov

Folwarks exist.

1. Folwarks basically give you the Slavs bonus. Applies on to farmers.
2. Folwarks are an eco building, you already need a mill to build farms anyways.
3. Your building affects every single resource gathering rate, including overpopulated mining camp. It’s super OP.
4. We’re talking about Stables, you’re going to spam the base with actual Stable, what a brutal design, not elegant.
5. Again, why would you give Persians ANOTHER eco bonus. Unheard of. Let’s give Cumans another one too?

@ElizaKolmakov

Who cares,

…
You dont understand the mechanism behind Stone in AOE II, it’s an exhastable resource and that’s what makes it so meaningful in decision making. It prevents spam. You dont seem to care though.

@ElizaKolmakov

Go seethe somewhere else. What is your solution to the Persians question?

@ElizaKolmakov

Aren’t you like 800 elo?

Awwwww really, ad hominem fallacy?
Attacking me personally.

1. Elo means nothing, I bet there’re plenty of 800 elo fellas here that can come up with great ideas.
2. More like 1800+ solo 1v1, non-meta, Arabia/open maps. But again, elo means nothing. No reason to offend low elo community members.
3. So in order to criticize you I have to have a better solution/idea? Interesting.

I personally dont think Persians need a buff, but a fix to this whole Elephant syndrome, just like all SEA civs.

[SMUM15236]

With so many new, unique and interesting Cavalry (Lithuanians, Bulgarians, Burgundians, Poles) and Camel (Gurjaras, Hindustanis) civs have been introduced in DE, Persians cavalry feels very generic and boring to me. Kamandaran is a really fun and interesting tech for them. But before that, they are pretty generic.

I’m thinking giving them old Indians bonus - Camel rider +1PA. This goes with their anti-archer stable units theme.

[PlumpDucklin]

@AllergicTable49

I remind you that Persians eco bonus is not just a positive one but also a negative one, TC consumes more Food per minute.

so that means huns , britons, aztecs, celts, cumans, even franks all have negative bonuses as well?? no.

even more so for persians, they consume the SAME food faster( this isnt even an issue, they arent spending even more food per vil) means they get vils sooner, means those vils work sooner, means you generate res sooner

persians would also have a negative aspect to it if the res consumption was even higher relative to the time, as it stands it is only positive, you are just obsessed with aging up at X number of vils, when those X vils are actually achieved sooner in real time

[PlumpDucklin]

i would only like to see WE viability buffed, and give them something to fight archer resistant infantry. HC come way too late.

@ElizaKolmakov

5/10/15/20% faster working TCs and docks, 2x HP

against this for a number of reasons, primarily we just get another civ with eco balancing to make it more viable, instead of the variety of alternatives. it also helps them when douching, which is already a negative experience for so many players.

@ElizaKolmakov

Completing any technology gives you 1 free farm

might be interesting, basically just (delayed) free wood? and arguably functions very similar to techs like viet eco bonus, except much better? is this even possible as far as the engine goes? my first guess is its much stronger than viet so how is this balanced when they already have a strong eco bonus?

@ElizaKolmakov

War elephant speed increased to 0.8 for both Elite and non-Elite.

i really hope we get this at some stage

@ElizaKolmakov

Kamandaran: Crossbows and Cavalry Archers

my initial reaction is trash HCA will be toxic to play against in some matches

@ElizaKolmakov

New Imperial Age UT, Caravanserai (I can’t find a better name, but should not be that, to not be confused with the Hindustani building): Units move and villagers work faster around stables
Actual effect is 10% for both, in a 13x13 area around the core of a stable.

how much do you want to buff this civ? it averages 50% winrate, but you want to stack this on top of the wood (OP) bonus? on top of a buffed version of the existing bonus?

[ApplaudedPoppy2]

When persians used to have 5% faster working TC and docks in dark Age, they used to be very strong on Arabia and completely broken on Hybrid, they were a dominant civ in HC3.

Maybe giving them back the dark age bonus just for the TC might be ok, considering that since early 2020 the meta evolved against them with CA buff and new camel civs. I think they don’t need anything else

[CactusSteak2171]

This bonus turned out to be bugged and their docks weren’t working 5% faster in dark age. So 5% for TCs only is probably not a good idea for hybrid maps. It also doesn’t change the fact they only have 2 bonuses.