What if the petard is moved to the siege workshop?will that make it more useful rather than not using it at all.
I like to use petards to counter AI rushes of battering rames they love to do these days. Store them in my castle, and drop them when ram gets close
I think petards should have more hit points and walk faster so they can withstand castle and towers better when they approach them. They currently have no chance of reaching a castle
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They do occasionally get used. Most frequently in sudden death where a bunch of petards can kick a player out of the game before they know they’re under attack, or in regicide (where they’re good for taking down the building the king is in).
In regular games, they’re occasionally used to break into a base. The advantage is with how suddenly they take down buildings/walls, an opponent won’t have time to react. And also occasionally used in castle fights (in rare situations where two enemy castles come up right next to each other)
Petards are not cost effective, but they aren’t useless either. I have seen them used to take down castles (though I haven’t ever managed it myself - works best if you have a unit draw the castle fire, but even with that it still takes a bunch of petards). And I’ve experienced them taking down a TC in sudden death.
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Are you the same guy that complained about the word “meta” some years back? Because this complaint iss almost as dumb.
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You not liking a unit don’t make them worthless. I like the unit, and getting a civ with a bonus to petards would be sweet.
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Petards and Siege Towers are two pretty odd units. They do exist and have their small niche roles but not a single civ has a civ bonus or UT specifically for them. They are affected by some general siege techs and bonuses though.
Chronicles completely removed the Petards without any replacement and I don’t think many people missed them. I know they are useful in some campaigns but does being useful justify them existing. A Cobra Car would also be very useful in most campaigns but it would obviously be a stupid unit to have.
Logically as a clearly gunpowder unit they should be locked behind Chemistry but so should technically also the Demolition Ships. Chronicles replaces the Demolition Ships with units carrying flammable materials instead of gunpowder so that unit could still work without Chemistry.
Anyway I think Siege Towers, Petards and the Demolition Ships all need a bigger rework to fit better into the whole game. They feel like strangely glued on units now.
What would you think about a dedicated demolition civ with buffs to Petards and Demo Ships? I’ve designed the Yemenis this way: Saracen split - Google Docs
Petards have always annoyed me – I think they’re the only feature of The Conquerors that I dislike. I don’t know the motivation for adding them, but to me it always felt like the ES devs repurposed a goofy cheat unit that they already had graphics for so that they could increase the number of new units they could advertise with minimal effort.
I agree – this is one of the reasons I dislike them. If I was designing The Conquerors and wanted to include them, I’d have made them require Chemistry and put them in the siege workshop. (I wouldn’t make this change now, though, 26 years after the fact.) Similarly, fire lancers and rocket carts should require Chemistry, and the fact that they don’t is one of many things that annoy me about these units.
I wouldn’t necessarily interpret demolition ships as using gunpowder, since I think some of notable historical examples were not gunpowder-based. At most a small graphical change would be sufficient, but there’s nothing to indicate that those barrels on board specifically contain gunpowder rather than some other incendiary (except maybe the explosion animation).
So they’re usually useless, but there are niche cases where they’re overpowered and anti-fun. That doesn’t seem all that great to me.
There are also some cheese strategies in campaign scenarios where they’re useful, and I’ve seen them used in speed runs.
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Petards don’t need to be removed. They remove themselves.
(OK sorry I know that joke is stupid, I just had to)
I would change Petards a bit though. I think they do too much damage to TCs and stone walls. Is it possible to adjust their damage types so they still do the same against Castles but less against those?
I think petards are unfortunately essential for some civs on certain map types / settings as they don’t have any other useful siege tools.
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Oh elaborate on this one.
Oh wait I found it after gargling around.
Yes, they’re good at knocking down castles quickly…
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Performing snipes are a lot of fun. Viewing one is too. Receiving one not so much, unless you successfully stop it. Overall, I don’t consider the unit anti-fun. And even in the situations where they are useful, I wouldn’t call them OP. They cost a significant amount (i.e. are not cost-effective), and their numbers can be whittled down until they fail to destroy the target. In sudden death, the TC is often going to be well-protected, with walls and other defensive structures surrounding it. In regicide, you have to correctly identify the king’s location, snipe the building its in, then slay the king (something petards aren’t so good at) - and the king often has similar levels of protection that the TC in sudden death would have.
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i’m intrigued as to why you didn’t tweak petard’s stats. if petards are to explode upon contact, they have to be stronger or faster. but… i’m sorry, i police people’s speech: why “OG saracens”??? why do people say OG instead of original? It’s only a couple more letters!!!
i am not. it’s just that the usage of the word “meta” is weird (like petards, heh). Take a look at his sentence: “Go watch pro games yourself, (…) you really get to understand the meta and how different units in the game are effectively used”. he could have just not aded the “understand the meta” bit, because it meant what came after: how units are used.
siege towers are appropiate in a game about medieval warfare. I guess you view them as odd because this particular game doesn’t consist of walled up cities.
anyway, petards should move at least as fast a a longswordman. I get that siege has to be slow, but since none of the other 5 siege weapons is lost forever after you use them as if they were a bee that loses its’ sting, petards should disattach itself from the siege roster by this tweak in their stats.
I said anti-fun because anything that can “kick a player out of the game before they know they’re under attack” or where “an opponent won’t have time to react” sounds like it would never be fun for the player on the receiving end. Hard to see how anyone would successfully stop these things they apparently don’t know about or can’t react to.
But I was just going on what you’d said. Personally I don’t think I have ever played a game where my opponent used petards against me (unless you count the few situations they’re used in the campaigns).
Since they are so easy to die and their use in ranked is rare, it sounds like their cost should be lowered 
And/or get buffed. Why no balance changes for the poor, underappreciated petards?
Petards are slow and easy to kill. If you die by petards you’ve been outplayed.
It’s fun creating dozens and sending them to enemy AI civs near the end of the game
It’s a video game and they thought it would be fun for players to have this unit. I’ve found them fun and am glad they are in the game. Hopefully, they aren’t going anywhere except buffed into the faster, stronger, and more explosive lane. Two should take out battering rams rather than three
In case I didn’t make it totally clear already (which I know I did, but never mind): I am not dying to petards. As I have already said, I don’t think an opponent has ever used petards against me. I was just commenting on what @JasuniSmith had said about them. If you disagree with what they said, argue with them, not me.