It was reworked,
Its cheaper now then in Legacy, attack of 15 with ROF of 1.5 vs the Legacy attack of 30 at 3 ROF. I think it works fine, with the speed of 4.5 its supposed to be hitting and running anyway
2 Likes
I am aware that there was a rework. I don’t think you understand the issue.
The outlaw are now completly useless since the rework.
They cost a lot of population , with literaly no dammage and no tankiness at all.
I don’t know in which situation you are supposed to create them.
2 Likes
And they were useful before?
The outlaws still have the same pop and dps post-rework. the only one that got nerf is the renegado.
to compensate for that though, all outlaws are now have upgrades that shadow tech from age 3 onwards.
If you manage to keep something like the comanchero alive, they become a deadly mass
1 Like
Hi @BjornViking20!
Pistolero stats that are currently ingame are the intended ones. Thank you anyway for your report! 
3 Likes
Mmm okay then, I still think it is rather odd that you would delete their role as a substitute for musks in exchange for nothing but it is what it is. And yes I am aware of the the half damage and reduction to 1.5 rate of fire and I don’t count it because that is range attack and unrelated to cavalry. Even with that change I disagree because early game is often about hit and run and not prolonged combat, which is the only context in which 1.5 rate of fire is useful, making even their 4.5 speed irrelevant with their 15 weak range attack to kite. This is specially true for Renegados that had a terribly slow attack animation to begin with.
A lower rate of fire is still useful in hit and run situation since you can move and fire more often, its due to the firing animation that makes it clunky.
effectively now the unit is a outlaw version of an Ashigaru musketeer with that speed , and I dont think ashis are bad units for hit and run.
it also has more melee armour then a musk and is cheaper, so all and all I think it has a role as it stands
Are you referring to the 24 range attack, 3.0 rate of fire, 3.5x vs cavalry in melee unupgraded ashigaru musketeer? If so honestly the only similarity I see is the 4.5 speed and this comparison has no standing.
I just want to say that I am willing to change my mind if evidence is provided of this unit’s usefulness. So if you can upload a couple of replays that show how you can use this unit properly and fairly competitively, I will be more than happy to watch it.
I say its like Ashi when compared to the musketeer,
Ashi - 24 dmg 3 rof
pistolero - 15 dmg 1.5 rof so it has more damage.
So it is a ashi with more damage at range and tankier in melee due to its higher armour, I think the decreased melee attack is of little meaning
Its also to note that there is another musket outlaw unit, the dacoit which has the more traditional musket role, more damage at 3 rof but also a lot more expensive. I think the devs wanted to have a niche for units rather then all of them have the same stats, just on different map.
I never said the units are competitive, outlaws never were, but for a cheese strat they are decent. The only outlaws that are competitive right now are the african ones and they are edging towards being OP
Record Game 2021-09-24 11-38-56.age3Yrec (5.6 MB)
here is a test game against the ai to show how it could work.
The unit actually handles very well when you can do almost stutter step like SC2 marines.
played as china cause easy pop space
I appreciate the effort into sending a recording.
I watched the game and I think that playing against a “Hardest” difficulty Russia AI is not a good simulation
Any real life Russian player would have had 5 Cossacks in your base by 5 min. You think okay good, I’m building outlaw anticav, and then you realize that it fails miserably at this role (I’ve seen it first hand). In addition to this, no competent Russia human player would have sat in their base with a Strelet only mass waiting for you to attack in literally 10 min. I believe the reason that you won is because you were able to mass at will until you attacked in your own time in a mostly stationary battle, which simply doesn’t happen in a ranked situation.
And again…the reason Ashigaru are useful to hit and run is because they fire with all of their power at once and then leave, facing little casualties. Pistoleros does only half the damage trying that.
The reason why its the hardest difficulty is because on extreme, the AI rushes at about 3-4 mins, which is unrealistic for any civ. You can try this on human players but just getting the correct map was enough of a pain.
Russia is probably not the greatest matchup for this but combined with steppe riders and CKN they are a deadly force. They are good as complementary units to your army. And if the opponent has cossacks in at 5 mins that doesn’t really matter then you have the pistolero out alraedy and ckn or steppe rider shipments on the way
and again I never said they are competitive, this is a cheese strats, you may get some wins with ■■■■■ like this but don’t expect outlaws to be competitive and don’t expect them to become competitive, the african outlaws are the only really competitive ones and they are in the process of being nerfed because of it
Hardest AI is better than 50% of the player base, so that is good enough imo.
1 Like
It’s also true that 80% of statistics are false.
(Nah but seriously, AI doesn’t play like real life players and that’s a well known fact).
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