Please do not implement auto scouting

I’m actually fine with that as long as there is nothing “intelligent” about it - the scout will just make an out-going spiral with the first TC as the center, from the current scout position. It can be easily nerfed/buffed by making the overlapping path ratio higher/lower.

To start with auto-scouting is something that really isn’t needed. Here’s why:

  1. Auto scouting was really useless in every RTS games. Because it was just sending randomly units around at the end of the day manual scouting proven better.

  2. DE is saying they are going to adapt an algorithm to do auto-scouting. But this algorithm is simply going to automate your play. It may help new players in focusing economy and other necessary stuffs but won’t help when they face stronger player with higher APM(Action Per Minute). Their hotkey skills isn’t improving at all and will cause a skill difference

DE is seems to focusing improving new players’ skill level on economy side in Dark Age. This is something that every beginner struggles when going to multiplayer. If they really wanted to improve they could’ve done something else instead. Like:

  1. Make more mini-games or challenges solely based on hotkey skills and APM only. It can be expandable via Art Of War scenarios.

  2. Make loading screen tips. Which’ll give infos about updated meta and small tips out there. For example: “Hotkey helps you to improve keypress times”, “Control groups helps to switch between units”, “Best way to improve APM is not to stop typing and clicking.”, “Rams can act as meatshield”, etc. Show this on main menu as well time to time.

  3. Display Hotkeys on buttons and show APM counter like Starcraft 2 does.

Last but not least Age Of Empires II never said anything about using Hotkeys directly. They let you to use hotkey but nothing directly. Why a FPS gamer has 100+ APM in FPS game but has low in RTS and doesn’t want to learn it? Because RTS Singleplayer game doesn’t really encourages player to use it. If RTS games would’ve encouraged more on hotkey fundamentals then we didn’t need to make something like automated stuffs ingame. If devs want to push new players to competitive they shouldn’t touch current stuffs that is there instead they should focus how they can make new players learn to play this game to an advanced level.

4 Likes

Auto-scouting is trash.

I’d rather learn the hard way that scouting is important and learn how to scout efficiently myself than let an AI do that for me, even if i’m new. This is no way to learn things.

Ah yes, you’re new to the game so let us make this AI do the scouting for you while we effectively reduce your APM and damage everything in the long run.

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what about making it optional? And for ranked matches make it automatically disabled?

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Auto Scouting is bad idea. In my view it take away game’s character. Probably it will just make impact on new players in dark age. But it could help all level player scouting in feudal and castle ages, when you focus on microbattles and economy and then you can just put your starting scout autopilot. That way given scouting info can make some impact on game, like reveal where relics and gold mines are and that ruins game, because it takes away significance of skill and replace it with AI.

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Fully agree.

At first I was: “Ok cool nice addition.”

But then later it hit me that it will just help people stay in their confort zones and not really learn the game.

It is a competitive RTS, people should adapt to it, not the other way around.

I could agree if the auto-scout was in single player only or co-op vs full AI. But multiplayer, no.

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Do not implement auto scouting, bad for the game.

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I want to choose " I like it, but i think it’s bad for the game"

I agree with this, it’s most likely gonna affect late game play and lower the skillcap of the game.

I’m pleasantly surprised people are opposed to this.

Apart from the fact that ‘The game plays for you’, I also think it makes it harder for people to improve.
It’s like giving inflatable armbands to people who want to learn to swim and not just stay afloat. It’s only going to hinder them eventually. Sure, people are free to ‘use the armbands’, but I can guarantee a majority of the people are going to get too comfortable using it (and I honestly can’t blame them).

Finding your sheep on your own asap, finding the boars, enemy, etc. is part of aoe2’s key strengths. If you really wish not to play with it, I think people could play on the explored setting in unranked lobbies.

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When I heard this my heart sank, I did not expect the devs to cross this line.
Again they are willing to break a fundamental rule “The player controlls the game”.

Think about all the things you could automate to make the game ‘easier’ and more ‘accessable’…

The idea that this will only be used by noobs is wrong, higher level players will just use it more situational.

Please no. If you do implement this, make sure it is a lobby setting. That way no serious player will ever have to deal with this degradation of the RTS genre.

You are very wrong, it is one of many things in aoe2 you have to keep track off. Things are never complex individually, but remembering to do everything is the challenge in RTS.

1 Like

Little game: can you guess what these noobs have in common
the one who doesn’t know the Loom button exist?
the one who doesn’t know the Feudal button exist?
the one who does a cav archer army as Teuton?
The answer is… They all can do a circle around their base and then go look for the enemy! And since that’s the very basic of scouting, the auto-scouting won’t harm their knowledge of said basics (they already know!) and they will toggle it after doing the strict minimum. Also I’ve yet to see a satisfactory explanation as to why auto-scouting is bad but shift+click is fine.

Since auto-scouting as far as I know will always be available it’s not a good analogy

Or you can, you know, use common sense to know when the calculator is unnecessary, and when it’s required. No need to be a genius to see that 5 multiplied by 30 is easy enough to be done mentally and people who trained to become calculation champions won’t feel offended if you use your calculator for 56987 multiplied by 2314,788 (and it’s not like they do it faster than you can type anyway 11)

I guess disagreement isn’t his thing

That’s called slippery slope fallacy. It’s assuming for 0 valid reason that an event (here, auto-scouting) will lead to tons of bad things (here , whole game automated). But that’s false: auto conversion is likely to be better than manual conversion after a certain mass of monks. And also, devs would need to be completely out of their mind to push that even further.

Unless you have the APM to keep tabs of your scout/your eco/your army (and chances are, you would be at the level where manual>auto already) you will surely miss some stuff because you don’t keep your eyes clued to your scout (and then again it’s equal to waypoints, just less tedious). And the only thing that was strong enough to make bad players able to overpower better players was pre-nerf Cuman. Auto-scouting will never be like that.

AoM comp players use autoqueues a lot, you can still go and challenge them to see if not using autoqueue made you any better.

Autoqueue doesn’t make units free right? So there is still the need to manage your ressources

Replace “ai scout” by “spamming waypoints” and think about it. Are waypoints bad? Any way if you forward vills and don’t bring the scout with them to check whether the enemy is watching the area you deserve to get found out.

Dude, you’re literally speaking to someone who thinks it’s a good idea

Khmer farms are Age of Empire 3. Ethiopian getting free stuff upon aging up is Age of Empires 3. Infinite Malay fish traps are like Age of mythology farms. I hope you still have an AoC CD lying around.

You would have one as well.

The fact 1 noob said that is completely irrelevant if it’s not backed up by evidence. Clearly it isn’t right now.

It can be said about tons of stuff. To take the examples I mentionned: if I’m up against a player that doesn’t know the Teutons have trash CA it doesn’t mean Teutons having CA is a bad thing because it traps some players.

No, Age AI isn’t that advanced yet. It will just wander in black zones first, then once it’s done it will jsut wanders randomly. Then again, it’s just waypoints done easier.

No, they said it would be the same as the one the AI uses.

I guess it can be cool, but players who want to improve further than Art of war will get in touch with the community and find such scenarios/advice and so on. Those tips quickly turn into “no s*** Sherlock” material

On Reddit there was a dude who came from Warcraft who asked about this and half the answers were like “us Age players we don’t need to spam clicks to have skill”

Because in FPS there are things like headshots/backstabs (ie.actions that make a player win in 1 hit), and encounters are pretty short anyway, so the slightest “help” becomes a cheat. Even OP cuman are nowhere near stuff like walls or trigger bots in FPS.

Then Tatars = noob fabricator since you can miss some sheeps and still be perfectly fine

Either you mean there is no black area, just fog of war, and then scouting will still be useful, or it’s fully revealed (ie.no fog of war at all) and this would actually ruin sneaks and the like.

As far as I know there is no auto “radar house” in the planning, and pros need their scout for rushes or to defend.

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I’ve yet to see a satisfactory explanation as to why auto-scouting is bad but shift+click is fine.

Waypoints are still individual inputs, you still have to:

Choose direction
Remember to set new waypoints

This is much different than auto-scouting, which is "set and forget’.

Unless you have the APM to keep tabs of your scout/your eco/your army you will surely miss some stuff because you don’t keep your eyes clued to your scout

This argument does not count for static elements such as resources, relics, buildings…

It doesn’t matter if they will still miss some stuff, this is about the fundamentals of the genre.

Imagine what this will mean on arena…

1 Like

Or I can just spam clicks on the mini map without even looking.

You can just set up a hotkey to check. Not hard at all.

Then again, if I shift+click, then get reminded of my scout’s existence by an attack alarm, I will see these structures.

Scouting =/= attacking, so monks are safe

Wow your arguments are so backwards. You completely failed to see my points.

Or I can just spam clicks on the mini map without even looking.

You are still choosing direction and have to remember to do it in the first place.

You can just set up a hotkey to check. Not hard at all.

Which you have to remember to do… If it isn’t hard then what is the problem?

Then again, if I shift+click, then get reminded of my scout’s existence by an attack alarm, I will see these structures.

Are you trying to devalue the effort it costs to manual scout? lol. It will always be more effort than auto-scouting.

Scouting =/= attacking, so monks are safe

Yeah because killing monks is part of scouting…

How can I choose if I don’t look?

Right clicking on farms to reseed them isn’t hard either

I doubt that just spamming waypoints is a smart way to scout. It’s technically manual, but it’s so random and no brain it might be automated as well.

Welp you mentionned Arena specifically so I’m guessing what woud be the issue.

Also, this (=/=) mean “different from” right?

Please do implement it. I have been wanting it for a long time. Just disable it in like competitive. Or Atleast for the first 20 mins or so.

i’m in favor of implementing auto-scouting and any other features which gets more people in the queues online

i want faster matchmaking and better matchmaking

How can I choose if I don’t look?

Even if you only see black, there is still decision making going along with that. You aren’t just ‘randomly’ clicking places, you still have sense of direction and ideas of where things might be. And like I said you still have to continuously initiate those decisions.

It’s interesting how you argue like there is nothing to it.

Right clicking on farms to reseed them isn’t hard either

??? I’m not the one saying that it should be automated because it is hard. You are flipping the argument. I am sayin that it is hard to keep track off all these things.

You are trying to push the narrative that because waypoint scouting is “easy” that we might aswell automate scouting…

I doubt that just spamming waypoints is a smart way to scout. It’s technically manual, but it’s so random and no brain it might be automated as well

I agree that randomly clicking on the minimap is dumb… What are you even talking about?

Welp you mentionned Arena specifically so I’m guessing what woud be the issue.

Your agument was outside of the scouting discussion. Auto scouting would be extra easy on arena type maps where the scout will be less likely to be killed by enemy TC.