Please don't add any new "buildup" mechanics - leave the creative ideas to the lategame

As it seems devs are currently working on a new DLC with new civs.

I want to state that in respect of land maps I don’t want any new mechanics added to the early game/buildup stage.

I’m especially referring here to the Gurjara Mill and the Mule Carts. These are great examples. The game would be totally fine without this. Yes, they give some early bonusses when you learn the special builds for these civs. But with the look on how many civs we already have, learning special builds for any new civ is just a form of Grinding. Yes the early game is repetitive. But that’s mainly because atm there is very little adaptation thanks to the deer push meta.

So please, instead of adding some grinding mechanics that could easiyl be replaced with some other civ bonusses just make scouting more revarding. Then the early game is more interesting - and interactive.

Ofc this isn’t against the implementation of ANY new mechanics. New mechanics can be a selling point of such a DLC. And I already see with the new unit designs that there will come some interesting ones.
I just don’t want them to force grind an early game for a civ that in the end often just plays out like any other.

And I don’t only say this for myself. I think it’s actually good that we have only like 4 or 5 “standard buildorders” that work very well with most civs and you can only get minor advantages with slight adaptations to the civs bonusses. Vietnamese for example when you know you don’t need as much wood for the upgrades - when you just put one lumberjack less while advancing you can improve your castle age timing a bit.
This is very helpful especially for players who don’t have the time to grind every civ. And it’s more welcoming to new players aswell. Because they see “oh ok, there’s like cav and archer civs and for each of them I only have to learn one build at first”.
If they go on search and look for “buildorders” and they only find specialised ones for each civ they can get overwhealmed easily. I think with this amount of civs that have so vastly different lategames it’s actually good we only have a few standard buildorders that “work” with all of them. This way at least you can start any new civ you haven’t played yet with a basic build that already provides you with a competitive start. Otherwise the sheer mass of civs would be incomprehensible for casuals.
With the current amount I would even probably advise to add an easy sort tool where you can list the civs after categories and mark all civs which have a “non-standard” early game. To make it easier for new players to eg play a “random standard cavalry civ” or something like this.

I don’t think these kind of mechanics add a lot to the game experience anyways. Esepecially as at later stages of the game they become basically irrelevant. I don’t miss having Mule Carts as Britons.

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I actually think new civs should have varied buildup mechanics. These bonuses are more appealing to me than “farmers work 15% faster”, and they may give similar results at the end of day, but they require a little more implication from the player.

I hardly see learning these starts as a “grind”. In the case of gurjaras, when I played them first my build was indeed messy, but the second time I knew I would have to send villagers on straggler trees before i can build a lumber camp. That’s it. That’s the “build” you have to grind.

Now if I haven’t played in a while and get the gurjaras, I will be a bit confused for sure. But the same goes if have to play the Huns or the Chineses for the first time in a month. I may have a bit of idle tc time, but this barely matters at 1200 elo.

I mean, if you want to replace starts that make scouting less rewarding, the number one contender is Mongols. Yet on paper they have a “standard start” compared to gurjaras.

According to you, what’s the trickiest part about playing gurjaras?

  • building your mill before your lumber camp?
  • or having to play with shrivamshas and camels instead of knights?

To me it’s the 2nd part. Not to mention camel scouts. After a few game i don’t have any issues understanding their mill. But I still don’t know how to use camel scouts. Are their worth their costs, considering they also take a long time to produce?

So please, more unique starts for dlc civs! More forwarks, more dungeons, as long as they are balanced (but I mean, Chinese have in the game for far longer and have always been a top civ.)!

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I actually enjoy the mule cart. I agree I don’t like that much the Gurjara or Chinese start…
Why not letting the devs be creative?

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