Please don't call them "vikings"

Age of Empires IV IV - Discussion
105

Well, I OBVIOUSLY disagree again. Rsrsrsrsrs

From what I’ve gathered, both you and some others on the forum are acting out of emotion, personal taste, or some kind of tantrum. lol
Another possible factor is not knowing how to read carefully what the person writes.

I’ll try to explain it in a more “digestible” way, so even a child can understand. Now, I just don’t know if the child will like to read it. Rsrsrs

Let’s go:

I didn’t even need to initially express my personal taste because I was already fully aware of the weight of the name “Vikings” in the world. Just look at the books, newspapers, magazines, movies, series, games. You don’t need a vote to see the obvious. (We have so many examples in the world: magazines, books, cartoons, movies, series, newspapers)

  • But to reiterate: My personal taste leans towards the names “Scandinavians” and “Denmark”. (*note: I also want to see variants in the future, such as Norway and Sweden).

So you ask yourself?
But why does the crazy @MadMax8915 insist on saying that Reddit is a niche, just because very few people voted and that the research doesn’t represent the real dimension of the problem?

First, because I suppose the main idea will be: to attract new casual players, bring in new people from outside, and bring back some old players who abandoned the platform.

I already said:

But some people don’t like it when I tell the absolute truth! Which is:
The term Viking is indeed the preferred and most popular term in the WORLD!
Whether you like it or not, whether you like hearing it loud and clear or not!
I don’t have the personality and I’m not a teenager to throw a tantrum.
This truth is absolute!

I didn’t use the Reddit lagoon to find out what the most popular term in the world is.
I used the OCEAN as a thermometer and scale! I used AI, which utilizes the global database of information.

In short, I’m not using my personal taste.
I’m telling the truth to anyone who wants to open their eyes!

If the idea is marketing, it’s quite OBVIOUS that the name Vikings will be extremely more popular and will serve to attract new people to the game.

But now… I’m going to talk about the big white elephant in the room, and many are pretending to be blind so they don’t have to see it.

But don’t worry…
Don’t be afraid…
I’m with you…
Don’t make any sudden movements…
Open your eyes…
Slowly…
CAREFUL!!!
It’s looking at you now!

And I’m going to be very direct now with this Age of Empires IV community.

I confess I’m disappointed to see how extremely contradictory they are in wasting time arguing over the name “Vikings,” while accepting unrealistic names for other civilizations:
– Jeanne d’Arc
– Zhu Xi’s Legacy

Seriously, are you going to leave it like this?
Using people’s names for a variant civilization?

The name Vikings is a fart in the wind!
Jeanne d’Arc and Zhu Xi’s Legacy are like two farts inside an elevator with the door closed!
Rsrsrsrsrs

It’s no wonder that the Age of Empires 2 community and others made fun of the Age of Empires 4 game.

There were several people at the time researching better possibilities, and this could be used to rework these civilizations and make them more accurate and historically interesting.

You think it’s normal to use people’s names to represent a civilization.
But you find it strange to use the name of an activity for a civilization.

Hmmmm… how strange, huh? Could it be selective blindness?

If that’s the case, then it means that in the future we might have names like:
– Ragnar Lothbrok Legacy
– Rollo of Normandy
– Erik the Red
– Sweyn Forkbeard Legacy

Because we can’t let the names of Jeanne d’Arc and Zhu Xi’s Legacy be the ONLY names, we’ll need more to maintain balance in the names between civilizations.
It would be too lame to only have 2 names lost in the middle.
What do you think?

106

You mean the names that folks who prefer better historical representation criticised, continued to criticise, and still criticise?

I mean, I’m ambivalent. Always have been. I’m a sucker for Jeanne d’Arc even if she’s a historical example of religious propaganda. But there are people who care a great deal.

Changing what’s in the game is harder than changing something that hasn’t been released yet. Your emotional appeal r.e. disappointment does nothing to cover this logical leap, I’m afraid.

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107

There’s no discrepancy,

You know it’s hypocrisy!

Because if that’s the case, we could have more names of peoples who made history!

108

I think this is an excellent argument for why “The Vikings” makes sense as a future variant. Could have a specific focus on sagas, heroes, and other fun bits pulled from history.

I don’t know about hypocrisy, but I’ve been consistent about variants being where selective historical elements belong. That’s what the Viking Age is; a small part of history that covers 1/3rd of the era. It’s perfect for a variant, kind of awkward for a base civ.

Some of the names you listed, such as Ragnar Lothbrok, are known as “legendary figures”. We don’t have a strong record for the events of that era from the viking perspective, and its likely that Ragnar was actually many different vikings with their feats being placed into one person for the sagas.

A lot of what I’ve heard people understand about vikings are actually based on myths and legends. It’s exactly what we have in variants, with Zhu Xi and JD being perfect examples of alt-history fantastical elements fitting into the theme.

Personally would enjoy a campaign module about the Tale of Ragnar Lodbrok. Great place for their storyteller figure to return.

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109

Well, what can I say…

The Age of Empires IV community isn’t very united… it doesn’t have a very large number of users on the forum and Reddit.

In terms of active online players, adding up the Steam, Xbox, and Microsoft Store/Game Pass (PC) platforms, there are probably around 30,000 or 35,000 people.

Here on the Age of Empires IV forum, those who participate are generally always the same people, and it’s rare for someone new to interact.

If we were to add up the number of participants and forum readers, it would probably only be 500 people or at most 1,000 people ( just on the AoE4 forum).

The developers said that the DLCs sold very well.

Showing that the variants are successful with the large mass of players.
The large mass of players also demonstrated that they aren’t so concerned with a game being 100% historically accurate.

At the time of the release of the first DLC with the controversial variants… the variant named “Jeanne d’Arc” was among the most complained about names.
However, the developers stood their ground, even after being criticized.

Later, YouTubers appeared, saying that there was a noisy minority on the forum that still hadn’t given up on asking for improvements to the names.
In short, they treated the critics on the forum and Reddit as a “minority” who wanted historical accuracy.

This shows that even asking before release doesn’t mean the wish will be granted.

Honestly, even after all this time, it would still be possible to fight if the community embraced the cause as a whole.

Especially since the cost of the change is low… it’s just changing the names and at most the flag. They could leave a more intensive effort for some time in the future.

If there were a total boycott in 2026, and a request on the forum and Reddit, asking for the change, and only if it is answered, would the DLC purchases return… surely the developers would backtrack and issue a statement responding.

There are several stories of game companies that, due to heavy boycotts, had to review and change.

Developers will only change certain choices if they feel it in their wallets!
In some cases, we might even be able to achieve change through dialogue, but in others, only if they feel it in their wallets!

Well, sorry for any misunderstanding. Because my English isn’t helping either… Rsrsrsrs, I can’t always fit the words I want.

Just like many here on the forum… we want something more historically accurate… but we don’t always get it.

But the tastes of the masses can be less demanding.

I wish everyone on the forum a happy 2026!! And may we have good surprises in 2026.

Happy holidays and a happy new year

110

“Scandinavians” would be a great name if they wanted to rename the civ in aoe2. IMO it’s not terrible for aoe4, but doesn’t fit in perfectly.

Denmark might be a little anachronistic. I’m not actually sure. But putting that aside, it’s the perfect aoe4-style name.

Regarding Reddit, I think GorbMort is just objectively correct, that if you reject a poll done on Reddit because Reddit is too niche, you have to reject any opinions shared on this forum too, because this forum is far more niche than Reddit. It would be a kind of ad hominem fallacy to say that because Reddit (or this forum) is too niche, the opinion shared on it is wrong, however.

Your reliance on AI as a source is highly problematic. AI is not trustworthy. Here’s the question I asked it, and its answer:

There’s an upcoming DLC where they announced a new aoe4 viking civ. What would be the best name for it, Vikings, Norsemen, Danes, or something else?

-

AoE4: what should a “Viking” civ be called?

Because AoE4 names civs after specific historical polities, “Vikings” is the weakest option historically, even if it’s the most marketable.

Let’s run through the candidates:

:cross_mark: Vikings

  • Historically inaccurate as a polity name

  • “Viking” describes an activity (raiding), not a people or state

  • Breaks AoE4’s naming logic (English, French, Rus, etc.)

  • Would be like calling a civ “Raiders” or “Crusaders”

Verdict: Bad fit for AoE4’s design philosophy.

:warning: Norsemen / Norse

  • Historically defensible as an ethnolinguistic group

  • Broad enough to cover Denmark, Norway, Sweden, and Iceland

  • Common in modern historiography

Problems:

  • Still not a polity

  • AoE4 otherwise avoids ethnonyms in favor of states

  • A bit vague compared to “English” or “French”

Verdict: Better than Vikings, but still slightly off-model.

:warning: Danes

  • Historically strong during the Viking Age proper

  • The Danelaw, North Sea Empire (Cnut), and major raids were Danish-led

  • “Danes” was commonly used in medieval sources for Viking raiders in England

Problems:

  • Excludes Norway- and Sweden-centric gameplay

  • Feels oddly narrow if the civ includes longships, Varangians, exploration, etc.

Verdict: Strong historically, but too narrow unless the civ is very England-facing.

:white_check_mark: Northmen or Norse Kingdoms

  • “Northmen” is period-authentic (Old English Norðmenn)

  • Avoids the “activity vs polity” problem

  • Broad but still historically grounded

or

  • “Norse Kingdoms” (or similar umbrella term)

  • Explicitly signals multiple polities

  • Matches AoE4’s desire for political entities without pretending there was one unified Viking state

Verdict: Best balance of accuracy and AoE4 naming consistency.

:trophy: Best AoE4 choice

If I had to rank them:

  1. Norse Kingdoms (best historically + structurally)

  2. Northmen

  3. Norse

  4. Danes

  5. Vikings (worst, historically)

Anyway, on to your next point:

I confess I’m disappointed to see how extremely contradictory they are in wasting time arguing over the name “Vikings,” while accepting unrealistic names for other civilizations:

I don’t accept them. I particularly don’t like JD, because she’s bad from a game-design standpoint and a bad name for a civ. But it’s done now. It’s easier to hope they don’t make a mistake with future civs than to expect them to go back and fix old ones. Zhu Xi is at least a better name than “Jade Emperor” or whatever they were originally going to call it. And the renamed Ayyubids is a perfect name.

I will say, I think that variant civs that have names which are a little off piste is a lot better than core civs. The Order of the Dragon isn’t exactly a polity, but it is a historical organisation rooted in military. The House of Lancaster and Sengoku Daimyo represent narrow slices of time in their respective broader kingdoms/empires. JD and Zhu Xi are the worst of the variant civ names, and JD the worst of those two by far.

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111

I would say you have to know how to use AI.

I asked the exact same question as you.

And the AI ​​answered very differently.

Obviously, if there’s something strange, you have to rephrase the question in a better way.

My AI responded like this and it’s a very good answer:

112

Reddit sometimes fails. The same thing happened with complaints about the names of the first DLC variants… “Jeanne d’Arc” was heavily criticized on Reddit and forums… later, YouTubers called the critics a “minority,” and the developers ignored the requests, even though there were numerous requests.

Not every Reddit poll gets the prediction right.

Just look at political election predictions… how many glaring errors there are and predictions that don’t come true.

Obviously, I repeat! Reddit doesn’t get all the polls right… you can search for that…

That’s a fallacy that it’s 100% accurate. You can look for this information; I’m not making it up!

113

You don’t understand hypocrisy I’m afraid. Or we see it differently.

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114

Generative AI, when used on an account or even by IP address, also absorbs the user’s preferences and provides responses that cater to them. This doesn’t make it more objective, but rather more dangerous.

If you’ve written the same thing and it responds differently, it’s because it wants to please you in some way.

It’s not healthy to use so much AI, especially to respond to opinion pieces, which are supposed to be something one should cultivate oneself.

Any response from a generative AI to a discussion is not a good response; it’s practically “stolen” or fabricated content, altering other users’ comments on related topics in the internet.

When the AI ​​comments that the Viking civilization title comes from Word Edge, it’s simply copying what you’ve already written in this thread, or the parallel discussion about preserving Viking, and repeating it.

Then, the rest of what it says about Danes or other names is the same as what we’re already discussing here; it’s practically repeating many of the comments in this very thread. And in those comments, it says the same thing: "that they are more historically accurate names."

I don’t think continuing to use AIs to seek emotional support contributes anything to this debate. If the developers wanted the AI ​​to tell them how they should think, they could use it themselves.

Polls aren’t meant to predict anything with 100% certainty, but rather to get an estimate of what a certain segment of the population thinks.

And at least one segment of the population that plays the game is the Reddit/AoE4forum/Discord users who bother to answer the polls.

If there’s a large enough sample, it can be considered representative. And in this game, you don’t need a large one, since the number of users isn’t that big (20,000).

In any case, I just think you’re upset because the poll didn’t agree with you. Would you say the same thing if the poll had shown that everyone preferred the name Vikings? I think so.

On the other hand, if you really want to be objective, then in every future thread where there’s a poll, I expect to see you spamming against the use of polls in any forum, under the excuse that they aren’t significant.

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115

Okay,

Let’s say I own a rare collector’s car. I’m concerned about keeping it intact and like the original.

One day I hit a wall, and the front bumper is dented.

So I take it to a mechanic for analysis and repair, because I want to preserve the original appearance as an intact car.

However, I ask the mechanic to disregard and not look at the rear bumper, which was hit more than a year ago, and I’m not interested in fixing the rear, even though the rear bumper is dented and almost falling off.
I’m only worried about the front bumper, but the rear one, well, it’s been more than a year, right… it can stay like that.

What could this be?

116

That’s not entirely true.

If that were the case, AI would be banned.
But in this case, it’s being encouraged and evolving to even be used in schools in the future.

However, I understand that YES! It is possible to manipulate AI:

Example:

  • Asking questions that direct towards a certain type of thinking, and obviously, you then direct the conversation to arrive at the answer you want to hear, whether by changing words, using slang, and creating situations that lead to a specific type of response. But two people can do this with each other too.

  • The way a question is framed within a context can also lead to wrong answers. Because again, you are directing the chance of error. If this can happen in a discussion forum where people interpret a context differently, imagine an AI, if you frame it incorrectly!

  • Some AIs can be configured to certain types of thoughts and ideologies and trained to think in a certain way. But I didn’t do that, my dear and esteemed colleague!

But to say that AI lies, just because it can be directed?
It’s the same as saying that, in a forum, a group of people can be influenced or even misinterpret things.

If that’s the case,

Prove to me that the term VIKINGS isn’t the most popular term worldwide, that the vast majority really dislike this term and prefer another. (I asked the AI ​​a very direct and unmanipulated question, simply comparing TWO words: Nordic and Vikings).

The question was: Which term is more popular, Norsemen or Viking?

The AI’s answer was that Vikings was a more popular term.

Now I ask you back:

Are you able to contradict this information? And prove that the AI ​​was lying?

Or in this case, did the AI ​​tell the truth and are there people with a fixed mindset here on the forum who are biting their keyboards because of it?

You just answered what I said.
No more unnecessary comments and blah blah blah.

The YouTubers themselves called it a “noisy minority,” and the vast majority of the community didn’t continue to support everything that was said on Reddit and forum.

Proof of this is the number of sales and success of the DLCs, stated by the developers themselves and not by a minority saying it would be bad!

However, everyone agrees that new civilizations and campaigns are necessary, and this will finally be addressed by 2026.

Now, regarding the names:
The names, “Sultan’s Army” and “Empire of Jade,” were extremely important to change!
Because they could easily be confused with other civilizations… they were too generic names.

As for the other names, although strange, the vast majority understand and can accept them because it’s possible to understand which civilization they belong to, and this also applies to the term “Viking,” where anyone understands which civilization it belongs to.

117

A story about a bumper, which you have legal reasons for fixing that have nothing to do with video games.

(I understand the attempt at an analogy, but it’s a pretty poor one)

118

Aww cmon. You had the perfect opportunity to call this the AoE Fourum!

119

Actually, it’s already been answered in several ways.

So everyone interprets it as they wish.

If you answer directly, they don’t like it… if you answer simply, they don’t like it… if you answer with a simple example to make it lighter, they don’t like it either…Hahaha

So…There’s nothing more for us to talk about.

Everyone believes what they want. Patience.

----> Once I saw on Reddit that there were people saying that in the AoE4 Forum, there were “difficult” people to talk to, and that it wasn’t worth going there to discuss things, especially since it was always the same people.

Today I’m starting to believe it! Rsrsrsrsrs

kkk
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In the topic:

We have our esteemed colleague @smiki5cinco , and I, @MadMax8915, and we are supporting the change of names of certain civilizations that have strange names!

Would you like to help, or will you act hypocritically now?

Is this community united, or is it a bunch of spoiled children?

They say that on Reddit most people wanted more historically accurate changes…, can we unite in the name of change or are you lying to me… and are there very few people who really want the change?

120

The thread is about the naming of the Vikings, and not other name changes that you personally might want.

Do you want the Vikings to be called anything else? Or are you saying that it is historically accurate? What is your position, exactly?

121

Regarding this topic: Please don’t call them “Vikings”

I would consider 3 possibilities… but I believe only two would fit reality.

Initially, I always thought the Vikings would call themselves Denmark. This has been discussed for many years, and many people said the same thing back then.

Today, with this idea of ​​variants and everything else… Two names would attract more attention:

– Nordics: these would encompass the possible variants " Scandinavian(Denmark, Norway, Sweden) + Finland and Iceland"
or
– Scandinavian: these would encompass the variants → Denmark, Norway, Sweden.

In my opinion, it would be “cheaper” for them if they were to make them Nordics (Norse).
Because all the other variants can be made using the same base civilization.

But I would like something more focused on the name “Scandinavian”. I think Denmark, Norway, and Sweden are very cool to represent the “Viking” style. So, if Scandinavian were chosen, I believe Finland and Iceland could perhaps undergo a more interesting rework instead of using the same civilization base to create their own.

*Note: I would treat the Scandinavians and Norse as a base civilization focused on the Viking Age. Regarding invasions, raids, explorations, pillaging… and consequently, the variants would deal with a later or final period.

What do you think would be best for the game and future new variants?

122

I’d just go with “Norse”, it’s already a familiar name for AoM fans and is relatively well known to the general public. Then they can add “Denmark” as a bit more high medieval themed civ variant, and “Vikings” as a variant even more focused on raiding and pillaging. (I do think “Vikings” are ok as a variant name, just not as the main civ.)

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123

I think “Norse” would work, just as smiki5five said above. Haven’t given any Variants that much thought. Would like to see more of whatever this faction is going to be first.

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124

Yes.
Thinking about what the best name would be, one that is historically accurate and also familiar to those who play Age of Empires… certainly the best choice is “Nordics”.

I agree!