Well yes but that’s also why conqs and war wagons are somewhat weaker compared to the best arena castle drop units. Like organ guns you counter just like hussites (and are less vulnerable to mangos btw) and jannis are even more difficult to counter. So I don’t see why castle drop strat itself would be op for bohemians if you need monks with redemption or atonement to make it work. And making their monasteries more expensive and/or taking away some of the free mining techs I agree could be good.
Yes Italians bc of condos, mongols bc of mangudai and drill siege ram and byzantines bc of cataphract siege ram. Sure bohemians have arb which is quite effective vs some of these units that’s usually not the unit you wanna tech into.
This ofc assumes you survived to that point. You might die to a monk rush or fast imp before but these are examples of civs that have working comps if you there. A lot of civs just die vs bohemian late game comp, however, and that’s what imo is a bit problematic.
I generally find playing vs bohemians requires good timing. Like if they boom hard you can have a good time window in early imp to push with arb and siege.
Fair enough. A lot bonuses come with percentages, though (most eco bonuses for instance).
This is exactly why the bohemians Monk into Castle push is so devastating.
Only a few civs have redemption to counter wagons, so for the rest mangonels work only for a short period of time since bohemians never lack the gold for redemption.
The biggest problem I see is Bohemians are way too strong in the early castle age.
- Early Up (23+2) → cant be rushed themselves
- Strong Spear → scout play almost never a good idea
- Cheap monasteries → 2 monasteries + baracks and still 23+2
- 20%/35% more gold → monk production + upgrades + Fast Imp if necessary
- 35% more stone → Castle push with 2nd and 3rd castle → Defender has to react with own castle, which is more expensive
- Unique Unit only countered by mangonels, monks or a relatively high number of knights
- (strong vills for 2nd castle drop)
And the synergy of those bonuses works the best on Arena, where you can pin/push your enemy in his base at minute 15.
1 Like
Just remove free stone and maybe nerf the monastery discount if necesary
4 Likes
Huns come to mind, which is why I suggested giving HW building armor class, making anything anti-building units (many melee units have) a more viable option.
I’m not as keen on reducing HP of HW or nerfing eco bonus. With its unusual design, this civ and units feel like in a delicate balance that could easily become trash tier or OP, especially on open maps. They are not great on open maps which is sensitive to eco bonus (let alone their hideous cavalry). I feel like counting as buildings is a cautious enough change that can bring more diverse ways of counter.
Also, I’m never a big fan of the extra Mangonel bonus damage, I find it absurdly specific and suggest removing Hussite Wagon armor class and give it building armor class. Onagers remain a great counter (slightly less so) if you crunch the numbers.
Petards and flaming camels actually become useful. By nerfing Hussite Wagon like that, you can indirectly buff some other units.
Yeah wouldn’t that be great, these two are terribly underused. (Not that I think petards are going to become very good unless you can get close)
But that’s just a small set of units that would do bonus damage.
@Developers: Thanks for adjusting Bohemians.
No cheap monasteries and less splash range+damage for houfnice are good changes.
5 Likes
I hope we can fix Poles someday too, folwsrk are still redicolois
1 Like
Now time to nerf Turks and Poles on Arena.
I have another idea too, give the former incas team bonus into a Poles civ bonus (which helps on arabia).
Like… Why?
With how useful the faster built farms used to be the only reason I see to use it is to nerf other civs with good team bonuses
Imo for Poles just remove one or two mill techs and maybe remove bombard cannons
Yeah remove crop rotation from Poles would only, nerf them very lategame.
Could work thought, better than nothing
Any nerfing of poles should incljde open map buffs
Poles don’t need nerfs for arena. The reason the civ is good is isn’t even mainly the folkward it is the gold stone bonus which allows you to get a defensive castle without sacrificing eco or get a forward castle and then fast imp faster than opponent.
The strenghts of the civ revolves a lot around strategy because poles units aren’t good. You can go early imp arbalest which is nice and you have obuch and bbc which can come in handy but that’s it. Winged hussar without pierce armor isn’t great and of you just boom vs good arena civs poles will likely lose the game.
My last arena TGs vs Bohemians, I still think Bohemians are broken on arena -_-