# Please Fix the “Fur Trade Mechanic” **URL:** \ **Category:** III - Discussion\ **Created:** [November 10, 2021, 6:05am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/please-fix-the-fur-trade-mechanic/182290 "2021-11-10T06:05:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![AnaWinters](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/anawinters/32/62381_2.png) [@AnaWinters](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/AnaWinters)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2021, 2:32pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/please-fix-the-fur-trade-mechanic/182290/21 "2021-11-11T14:32:18Z")
I actually addressed that as well, by making teepees produce wood over time. I moved the Earth Bounty card to Age 3 and made it improve the wood trickle rate from teepees. I was trying to figure out a way to make a building to produce wood, but I couldn’t find anything I like. Mangroves are distinctly _not_ from the plains, so it looks weird if they get shipped in. ---
**Author:** ![Moonshadow7475](https://forums.ageofempires.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Moonshadow7475](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Moonshadow7475)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2021, 2:41pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/please-fix-the-fur-trade-mechanic/182290/22 "2021-11-11T14:41:03Z")
Well you could argue this teepees producing wood is needed in the late game right now. So we might be onto something completely offtopic 😛 It would have been cool to have mango groves with different models depending on region and not be called mango groves anymore, but just groves. Like how would mango grow in arctic territory? ---
**Author:** ![M00Z1LLA](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/m00z1lla/32/104042_2.png) [@M00Z1LLA](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/M00Z1LLA)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2021, 4:07pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/please-fix-the-fur-trade-mechanic/182290/23 "2021-11-11T16:07:36Z")
The correct approach would have been to not change anything if their attempt to do so is going to be so lazy and offensive. It wouldn’t have to be exactly what I’m suggesting here, just something better than a hut next to a mine. And I’m not suggesting a complete rework of the existing system. Replacing a fraction of the mines on the map with dens would be essentially a reskin of mining. The rest is all supplemental. > [@Moonshadow7475](#): > > And if we are on the topic of historical accuracy, not all civilizations had gold mines in their lands, some not even silver mines, what are we going to do about that? should we invent a new source of gold for each one? ofc not. No… there are already tin, copper, coal, diamond, silver, and gold mines in the game. If you replaced a few mines on each map with dens you would change pretty much nothing at all for balance. If dens were placed in small clusters of 2 or 3 you wouldn’t even change resource distribution on the map which is not a radical change at all. ---
**Author:** ![Moonshadow7475](https://forums.ageofempires.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Moonshadow7475](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Moonshadow7475)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2021, 5:09pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/please-fix-the-fur-trade-mechanic/182290/24 "2021-11-11T17:09:29Z")
> [@M00Z1LLA](#): > > The correct approach would have been to not change anything if their attempt to do so is going to be so lazy and offensive. Not sure how offensive that was. I doubt there were enough people to care so much about this particular thing, this is a game after all. I can understand the firepit and plaza thing ( I would have kept it for aztecs and inca since they were good with human sacrifices and such), but mining gold… perfect example of sjw going too far. ---
**Author:** ![AnaWinters](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/anawinters/32/62381_2.png) [@AnaWinters](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/AnaWinters)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2021, 5:27pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/please-fix-the-fur-trade-mechanic/182290/25 "2021-11-11T17:27:40Z")
India can’t kill livestock for basically the same reason. It’s not an SJW move - as an actual Lakota person, I’m saying it was the right move. It was just poorly implemented because it’s difficult to completely remove interaction with the resource without making them either super OP or super useless. ---
**Author:** ![Moonshadow7475](https://forums.ageofempires.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Moonshadow7475](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Moonshadow7475)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2021, 5:30pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/please-fix-the-fur-trade-mechanic/182290/26 "2021-11-11T17:30:48Z")
I think it is fine, if they remove the wood cost and remove the villager limit. ---
**Author:** ![M00Z1LLA](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/m00z1lla/32/104042_2.png) [@M00Z1LLA](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/M00Z1LLA)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2021, 5:36pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/please-fix-the-fur-trade-mechanic/182290/28 "2021-11-11T17:36:21Z")
Why do you have to be a jerk? ---
**Author:** ![legrack](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/legrack/32/65319_2.png) [@legrack](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/legrack)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2021, 5:37pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/please-fix-the-fur-trade-mechanic/182290/29 "2021-11-11T17:37:02Z")
Cuz I don’t like arbitrary name changes for political correctness. Yea ppl had plantations back then, and they had slaves too. Ffs warhammer 40k chaos uses literal slaves and wc3 naga uses slave murlocs, aoe 3, a game about empires and new colonies, can’t even call things a plantation… ---
**Author:** ![M00Z1LLA](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/m00z1lla/32/104042_2.png) [@M00Z1LLA](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/M00Z1LLA)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2021, 5:38pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/please-fix-the-fur-trade-mechanic/182290/30 "2021-11-11T17:38:22Z")
Neither do I, but this thread is about the botched implementation of “fur trading”, not the names. Plantations should have never been renamed, but still, please be civil. ---
**Author:** ![legrack](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/legrack/32/65319_2.png) [@legrack](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/legrack)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2021, 5:41pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/please-fix-the-fur-trade-mechanic/182290/31 "2021-11-11T17:41:20Z")
My apologies, lakota. ---
**Author:** ![KingStarscream9](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/kingstarscream9/32/104066_2.png) [@KingStarscream9](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/KingStarscream9)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2021, 6:01pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/please-fix-the-fur-trade-mechanic/182290/32 "2021-11-11T18:01:39Z")
I still don’t understand the firepit thing at least not for the Haudenosaunee. Dancing was a major part of their culture. Honestly I think it was a case of their consultants, indigenous or not, viewing the dancing though the “civilized” European lens. They viewed dancing and hollering as “savage” and decided that it was an offensive stereotype even if it actually happened and wasn’t something First Nations of the time felt ashamed of. It seems to me that Anthony Brave is ashamed of some native practices and is trying to distance modern perceptions of Native Americans and First Nations from their traditional back grounds, but only when he feels that background is “unflattering”. ---
**Author:** ![Moonshadow7475](https://forums.ageofempires.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Moonshadow7475](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Moonshadow7475)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2021, 7:36pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/please-fix-the-fur-trade-mechanic/182290/33 "2021-11-11T19:36:05Z")
But India has a special use for livestock (same for Japan). It captures the essence of Indians worship of cows. And Japan not eating animals. The fur trade thing is just left in a black hole of civ designs. Do you think the new fur thing really captures the essence of Lakota fur trade? ---
**Author:** ![M00Z1LLA](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/m00z1lla/32/104042_2.png) [@M00Z1LLA](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/M00Z1LLA)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2021, 8:43pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/please-fix-the-fur-trade-mechanic/182290/34 "2021-11-11T20:43:36Z")
> [@AnaWinters](#): > > The only downside is this makes the Lakota remarkably bad, as they become an incredibly short-ranged civilization with no ability to create anything to attack from a distance. Teepees were supposed to be a way to make up for this - an incredible amount of health to give to what few ranged units they _do_ have is one of the few possible ways to balance them for combat. This is true, but the current hitpoints boost does basically nothing for this. They can eat a few more shots from cannons, but still can’t really hit back. For teepees, I’d give them the following features: - +5% yield to nearby resources (stacks per teepee) - The ability to pack up and move and to receive economic shipments - A toggle for coin collection from hunts. This could even be concentrated in the teepee itself. Something like a -10% gathering rate, but the teepee generates coin equivalent to the lost food income. - A very slow healing rate and a boost to villager attack (so they can down hunts near to the teepee) - An upgrade to increase the healing and attack boost and have it apply to military units - Faster cooldown for charged attacks near teepees (and a rework to some units to make this relevant) > [@AnaWinters](#): > > Without some way to reliably attack from a distance, they become an incredibly early-game focused faction with no ability to scale into the later game, even if they get an economic boost. > > Personally, I did give them an Arrow Knight-esque unit by reworking the Cetan Bowman to be an Age 3 siege trooper and moving the Wakina Rifle to Age 2, and this did readily solve most of their problems. I probably wouldn’t go with an Arrow Knight equivalent since swapping the place of Cetan Bowman and Wakina Rifle kinda messes up the technological progression from bows to guns. Instead, I’d **give Wakina Rifle the _Eagle Eye_ charged attack** (like what Cree trackers get from the one US card) so they can be the long-ranged snipers. Combine that with an attack boost and faster charged attack refreshing from teepees, and they could be the unit that gives you long-ranged damage output. Since they’d still be vulnerable to artillery, you could add in a few upgrades to give Bow Riders a multiplier vs artillery or even a _Maneuver_ ability for Club Warriors to temporarily avoid snaring. Not really related to this issue, but for dealing with buildings, Lakota could also have rams like I described here: [Should Native civs have the options of more captured artillery? [+Poll] - #12 by M00Z1LLA](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/should-native-civs-have-the-options-of-more-captured-artillery-poll/181417/12) ---
**Author:** ![Opdepov](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/opdepov/32/126390_2.png) [@Opdepov](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Opdepov)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2021, 9:06pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/please-fix-the-fur-trade-mechanic/182290/35 "2021-11-11T21:06:22Z")
They could’ve just not let Lakota mine gold, and allow the ability later on through card or upgrade. It seems reasonable in an what-if? game to let them be able to mine later on? Only lategame musket armed units and their upgrades shouldve really cost gold for them. Give the Lakota some fur trading references in cards that increase the sales value of food and wood in the… y’know… market? ---
**Author:** ![SimilarOwl0320](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/similarowl0320/32/67342_2.png) [@SimilarOwl0320](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/SimilarOwl0320)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2021, 9:21pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/please-fix-the-fur-trade-mechanic/182290/36 "2021-11-12T21:21:16Z")
Yep. I’m personally fine about the Teepees. It’s been a solid mechanic for almost twenty years and it works great for what was designed to do. I don’t think we should mess with it just because “reasons”. The fur trade “thing” in the other hand…geez. Someone just nuke it. 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![AnaWinters](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/anawinters/32/62381_2.png) [@AnaWinters](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/AnaWinters)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2021, 6:09am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/please-fix-the-fur-trade-mechanic/182290/37 "2021-11-14T06:09:09Z")
I meant to respond to this a few days ago, but my modem blew up. So no internet and the mobile version of this website is absolute trash to try and work with. Anyway, I am fully aware that dancing is a huge part of the culture of Native Americans. **However** I believe this was omitted because it represents a part of the cultures that isn’t for public consumption. I can’t even discuss some of the dances outside the dances themselves or when talking directly to the Medicine Man. Putting it in a game would be disrespectful to us, especially in something like this where they had an actual Native to help with it. Dancing isn’t something we’re ashamed of, or trying to make appear less “savage”. Granted, the whole concept of dancing around a fire like that just straight-up didn’t happen, but I don’t think that’s why it was removed. ---
**Author:** ![Aetium6665](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/aetium6665/32/76749_2.png) [@Aetium6665](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Aetium6665)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2021, 9:44am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/please-fix-the-fur-trade-mechanic/182290/38 "2021-11-14T09:44:15Z")
> [@KingStarscream9](#): > > FE Forgotten Empires ? [20 char] ---
**Author:** ![SoullessHeathen](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/soullessheathen/32/177779_2.png) [@SoullessHeathen](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/SoullessHeathen)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2021, 3:58pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/please-fix-the-fur-trade-mechanic/182290/39 "2021-11-14T15:58:55Z")
I was thinking of ideas on how it could be done, and this was the best idea I had. Designating a mine a sacred site, placing some sort of markers around it, something like the shrines of the Japanese. These structures could passively generate coin without depleting the mine, similar to a shrine generating food without killing the animals. The explanation could be that having a sacred site in your territory is encouraging pilgrimages and thus bringing trade to your town. ---
**Author:** ![KingStarscream9](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/kingstarscream9/32/104066_2.png) [@KingStarscream9](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/KingStarscream9)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2021, 4:37pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/please-fix-the-fur-trade-mechanic/182290/40 "2021-11-14T16:37:26Z")
Well that answers my question regarding the Lakota. If dances are sacred and it is the will of the Lakota people not to have these traditions represented in-game then I completely respect that and endorse its exclusion. I’m curious about one thing however: Respectfully, how are you so sure that Lakota never danced around a fire? I know if I danced and there was a big center-piece in the room like a large bonfire it would come naturally to me to dance around it. Of course I’m not asking for any details or disclosure of dances or ceremonies not meant for public consumption, in case such details would otherwise be relevant to answering the question. ---
**Author:** ![Veiv3717](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/veiv3717/32/61208_2.png) [@Veiv3717](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Veiv3717)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2021, 11:42pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/please-fix-the-fur-trade-mechanic/182290/41 "2021-11-14T23:42:33Z")
It already costs 25 wood. [Previous page](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/please-fix-the-fur-trade-mechanic/182290.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/please-fix-the-fur-trade-mechanic/182290.md?page=3)