You need to setup 2 to be even with your non-native enemies. So 50 wood.
The firepit model from the original game was directly based on an extremely sacred dance that’s only performed once a year, and can and has killed people performing it.
That should be enough information about why it was a bad choice to use it.
reduce the market to 5 wood(actually with the precedent of the african civs it can be free) and boost the gold rate by another 20% ( or yield, that could be interesting, or both)
Basically give them free placer mines ( which they already have, and free amalgamation. That alone should make it worth it
can also increase the radius at which they can be built, make it more defensive (for Lakota, haud doesnt need it)
edit: set it so that the rate at the market is the base rate, allowing techs that increase gather rate to scale off the higher base rate as well.
In addition, if the number of gatherers on the market is really that much of a problem, increase it to 15, with the +30% its the same as having 19.5 un-upgraded vils
What ? [Character Limit]
The accounts of the Sun Dance sound quite brutal so the fact that there were deaths isn’t surprising.
http://aktalakota.stjo.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=8668
I initialy interpreted it as ‘dead people performing the dance’ lol
In the end they could just keep the cost but bump slots to 20. The fact that you need 50 wood to keep even with your enemies is annoying.
Forgive me for not reading the full thread, but why not just reskin gold mines for Haudenosaunee and Lakota?
So when playing either of them, the actual model is replaced. Everything else is the same, gather rate, obstruction, quantity. The villagers would need an animation that works better for collecting pelts (no pickax).
EG: when starting a game as Lakota, you see a beaver den by your TC instead of a gold mine. When you scout your opponents base, they will also have beaver dens. For everyone else, they see a gold mine in their base and a gold mine in the Lakota base. When a Lakota player sees enemy villagers collecting gold, the villagers will be using the beaver collection animation on a beaver den. When Europeans see Lakota gathering gold, they’ll use the beaver collection animation on a gold mine.
If that is a little too hard to manage, just make it so that gold mines are replaced with beaver dens when either civilization is present. Just straight up no gold mines on the map, just beaver dens (which are the same from the game’s perspective). That might be a little confusing for new players, but should be easy to catch on to quickly.
I feel like making it 20 slots is not OP but potentially annoying as if im not wrong it doesn’t prevent other people from taking the mines as well.
So you might have a situation where you as the haud or lakota player can just take gold from another player that is already saturating the mine.
I would imagine the mechanic as presenting an interesting trade off - you have less vils on gold overall but you gather it more intensively. Which really helps since their units are relatively gold heavy (especially for haud)
just removing the wood cost of the market ( like with the granary for the african civs) would address like 90% of the issues that people have raised here.
Opinions on this potential direction I took my mod in:
For context, I changed the cost of all buildings to be 50% their current cost in wood, then an equal cost in food.
But I added the ability for normal Markets to be built on top of mines, which would then do the mining for the player. However, they have no other way to collect coin in the early game, as the Fur Trade - which I’ll probably just turn into an infinite coin source that is, essentially, a reskinned estate - is expensive and slow.
However, this means they’d need to acquire 150 food/wood (I heavily increased the cost of the Market for this). The upside is that the Lakota units cost next to no coin anyway - only the Wakina Rifle and Rifle Rider cost coin, and neither is really viable to use in Age 2 anyway - and that the Lakota player is then able to generate a revenue without needing to dedicate villagers to it.
The downside is the high cost of the Market - it’s a combined 300 resources, over triple the current cost of the Market - and the requirement of the Lakota player to quickly establish and maintain control over the map’s mines, or be unable to collect coin at any meaningful rate before the late Fortress Age.
to balance all that is a nightmare, just let the civ be like it is. Fix bugs, and bring new civs.
This wouldn’t require any radical changes. 1 tin mine being replaced with a cluster of 3 dens would be functionally the same and only a fraction of the mines would need to be changed. All other forms of coin gathering would be mainly supplemental and togglable so you wouldn’t have to sacrifice other resources to get more coin.
i think its abundantly clear you don’t code maps, and it would be such a mess in a 4v4. this is not gonna be a functional solution
How would this be any different than a new type of mine? Or alternatively increasing the spacing between mines and then placing dens at a spacing that would offset the reduced number of mines.
because they wouldn’t spawn when you don’t have the natives on the map, and that would lead to an extreme number of conflicts in map coding. you’d have to check player civs for placing resources, you’d have conflicts on team games with not being able to mine the wrong kind of resource, you’d have to also check which side each player is on to assign constraints so a european player doesn’t have a pelt thing as their second mine, its really a very involved process in making a balanced map to begin with and its not nearly as straightforward as you might imagine
That does sound very complicated and difficult to implement.
Fortunately that’s not at all what I’m suggesting. The placement of dens should in no way depend on what civs are in the game or where they spawn. All maps for all civs should have fewer mines and the difference in coin could be added in as dens (which could be gathered from by all civilizations). Maybe 20-30% fewer mines and that difference made up as dens. It might make things a bit limited for 4v4 all Lakota matchups but otherwise it would take only minor balance tweaks. Access to shipping a trap line travois would mitigate really unfavourable maps similar to orchards for Japanese.
I think you folks are overcomplicating things. The easiest solutions right now are (temporarily until they replace tribal marketplace for good):
1- Go back to mining
2- Cut the cost of Tribal Marketplace to zero/10 wood/5 wood (or whatever) and then increase the max villagers allowed there.
And none of that was done. There are good ideas here but I’m always doubtful about complex implementation/coding while so many simple things are still on the line to be done.
I like this one. But I think why people discuss this problem is that they don’t regard the tribal marketplace suitable since the point that the mine disappearing making it collapsing looks weird.
Perhaps create a new building such like hunting huts whatever, making it cost a little wood, low HP, take long time to build and only able to be built on the mine, replacing the tribal marketplace. Unlike the mountain monastery, the hunting hut on the mine would not mine by itself but has no build limit.
Meanwhile, up to 20 villagers could work around per market (not work at the hunting hut) to gather the coin if there is any hunting hut on the undepleted mine. If the player hunting animals near by the hunting hut or the market, it would receive a little extra coin automatically. (The hut would not attract animal approaching.)
You can send the chief or the villager to the mine to build the hunting hut, and let other villagers work at the market in the base. That would look like people get the furs from the huts and trade into the coin at the markets. If you have lots of the huts, you could build several markets to send more “fur traders” for gathering more coins as you wish. Also, you have to protect the huts otherwise you could not get the “fur”. As the oppose, you have to destroy the hunting huts as possible as you can for keeping the mine free for mining and cutting the Lakota “fur” line out.
After the mine is depleted, the villagers could not continue working around the market due to no more fur send from the hut. The hut could be still there but just provide the LoS and while you hunts near by it, the extra coin.
já que e obrigado pagar 25 de madeira porque não ah pelo menos 10% ou 5% a mais de coleta de ouro , ou alguma aura de coleta de comida ou fazer que os animais se aproximem da construção igual as civilizações africanas
seria legal mais 20% ou 10 % de rendimento na mina de ouro !