Please give Turks another UU

As I said, I don’t want Turks to be buffed/nerfed: I only proposed that they should have a cavalry unit who valorizes their nomadic history, for me it could have the same stats and purpose of Hussars and would be completely fine.

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So you just want a unit re-skin Why don’t start there?

We really just need a propper, culturally correct reskin for all units of each civ. The devs can do1 civ every few months, it’s all that is sorely lacking in this brilliant game.

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Such a change should be client side only. And thats a huge undertaking.

Their current UU needs some help. It’s usually only seen in early castle age and that’s it. The elite upgrade should be cheaper and/or the stats should be buffed to the elite version. It’s been buffed not that long ago and it still is rarely used because it underperforms in imperial age.


you mean Ancient Turks ? wtf dude :smiley:

Who told u that dude . We know perfectly :slight_smile:

60 elite Jans wreck out 60 FU arbalest in every scenerio my friend.
Elite Jannies are one of the most strong UU in game dephending how u use them.Having ZERO frame delay gives them great operational/micro capacity. Also they have a potential to counter its counters with some advanced strategies.Actually if i have a 60 elite Jans i can counter ur 60 FU Arbalest (excludin British ones) . Also Janns are terrible to be dealt with pure cavarly force when They are used in Stand Ground position and close formation(after recent changes).I have recently defeated 45 FU Frank paladin with 55 elite Jannies with not much effort.(hit and run simply)This is somethin that u cant do with HC’s with 17-7 =10 attack.Etc etc.
But i agree that Elite Jannie Cost should be decreased . Siege engineers should be given to Turcos making out their BBC real trouble with 15 range i believe . (it isnt that much comparing to Briton 12 range weirdos.)

AoE 2 BBC (mortar) is exactly seven GALAXIES away from the real historical Ottoman Bombards.

Turks, one of the absolute top civs of all time, deserve to at least have their real bombards and its proper heavy cav after 20 years… This is a million times better than to simply keep adding increasingly obscure civs ad eternum.

Here we go again with the self glorified history lesson again.


I didn’t know that but Jan is far more expensive than Arbalester. You wouldn’t see 60 Jans in a 1600+ ELO raiting. Normally, you see 28 Jans vs 40 Arbalests or 20 Paladin vs 28 Jans. Arbalest and Paladin side generally win in this match ups. If you do, Hussar + Janissary combo, enemy counter this combo with arbalest + halberdier. Even generic Arbalest + halberdier like Chinese beat this combo even though Turkish Hussar (free upgrades + 1 PA) and Janissary (25% hp, being unique unit) is buffed units.

Having zero frame delay is OP in theory but enemy can force engagement due to slowness of Jans. Arbalest has same speed but at least it is far cheaper, thus you can replenish arbalest army when you lose them but replenishing Janissary is too expensive.

Turks would go arbalester if they have in tech tree. Generic arbalester is stronger than Janissary even though recent huge buffs. New HC at least counter infantry better than arbalester. Janissary don’t have this thing. Gbeto for instance very similar to Janissary but better unit. Gbeto is cheaper, 43% faster (Janissary 0.96 and Gbeto 1.38), better armor class (infantry), attack faster, 100% accuracy. Janissary’s only advantage is +2 range and zero frame delay. Is that enough to compensate Gbeto’s advantages. I don’t think so.

Edit: Turks Heavy Cavalry Archer + Hussar combo beat arbalest + halberdier, thus going heavy cavalry archer is always better than going Janissary. Janissary has more damage output but 100 hp (+100% hp) + 1.54 speed (60% speed) + +2 Pierce Armor + +6 damage against Halberdier is better than Elite Janissary.

Bro. You ignore the fact that Elite Jani is actually very cheap to fully upgrade. They only need Elite upgrade and armor, which cost 1350f 1150g total. Meanwhile, arbalester also need attack upgrade (armor as well), chemistry, thumb ring, ballistics and unit upgrade. For quick calculation, it need 2175f 1400g 550w total. 40 arbalester are not cheaper than 40 Elite Janis if also counting upgrade cost.
Edit: For check my calculation, 40 Elite Janis including upgrade cost is 7100 resource total, and 40 arbalester including upgrade cost 6925 resource total. Elite janissary is a little bit more expensive but marginal difference.

They would not really. Turks HCA is much better. How often we see Magyars arbalester?

That’s correct. But HCA is also very expensive to fully upgrade, and it is nothing wrong to beat arbalester and half (It is also a little too good though.). However, why Janissary, which is one of the best unit in castle age in entire game, also very cheap to upgrade in imp also should be allowed to dominate everything in imp? Castle age Janissary push is already too good in Arena, and opponent cannot have a chance even if they survive the push and go to imp, is it really fair?

It is off topic but I will make a small explanation on this subject, those who are not curious may not read subsequent paragraph. Is it self glorified? Yes. But is it true? Also yes. In history, Turks are the race that established the most states and ruled the most lands for a longest time. Professional historian know this but unfortunately, Turk history is not properly explained in European textbooks. That’s why ordinary Europeans don’t know about Turkish history and they don’t believe when someone tell real Turkish history to them. European history is explained in Turkish textbooks, albeit briefly. Of course, it doesn’t mean that Turks should be OP in game.

In European history, Spanish, Portuguese, Italians, France, Magyars are most dominant states. France (Franks are German) still not represented in the game. Other dominant civs I mentioned are Medium civs just like Turks. Everyone’s problem is Janissary’s skin (historical Janissary cloth is great comparing to game Jan’s skin), Elite Janissary’s uselessness and iconic great bombard cannon from 1453 Siege of Constantinople.

This calculation is misleading. Arbalest upgrades also effect to defensive buildings. Even if you go only janissary, you must do blacksmith attack upgrades and ballistics in order to strengthen tcs, towers and castles. Only thumb ring (300f 250w) and arbalest upgrade (300f 350g) is special to archers. On the other hand, Elite Janissary upgrade is 850f 750g. Arbalest upgrades are cheaper than Janissaries consequently.

i said this without including the heavy cavalry archer. I include only Arbalest vs Elite Janissary. Magyars HCA is stronger than Turks HCA. It is wrong comparison. Probably, we would still see arbalest in Turks due to its cheap upgrade cost. HCA is better unit but its upgrades are expensive.

It is good idea but Elite Janissary used too rarely because they become bad after enemy make their archers and cavalry FU.

I have never heard of this before.
The clothwed Janissaries you dipict are from later periods 1600’s to 1800’s. (AoE3s timeline) The first Jannisaries for about 500 years were the Christian Byzantines that were POW’s that were given the option to join the Turkish armies but will then be allowed to retain their Christian Faith. These Janisaries were superb sword wielders using the Paramerion/Killij thus they did have armour. Only the later stages of the AOE2 timeline did gunpowder weapons start to replace the Jannisaries primary armerment and in time as the region became more associated with the Turks/Ottomans the old Byzantine Jannisaries were slowly replaced by Turkick/Ottoman soldiers wielding the latest gunpowder weapons. Thus their armour evolved as well, from scale+chain mail to mostly cloth in the 1600’s (Since mail provides no resistance to shot)

What are you talking about?do you even play this game?


Your historical knowledge is completely wrong. First Janissaries in Murat 1 reign (1363-1389) was captives and Sultan took 1/5 captives of Akinci’s from raids and trained these captives as soldier. Ottoman raided all Balkans (Serbs, Bulgarians, Wallachians, partly Hungarians) not only Byzantine lands. In Murat 1 reign, Byzantine lands got shrink a lot by Ottomans. Only remaining land of Byzantine Empire was Constantinople and its surroundings and Byzantine Empire was obliged to send tribute and soldiers to the Ottoman Empire. This means that Byzantine Empire became vassal state of Ottoman Beylik. I share this map in order to show Byzantines borders. Thessaloniki is conquered in 1385 but it was retaken by Byzantines 2 times in 1389 and 1402 during Ottoman throne is empty. Ottoman lastly retook Thessaloniki in 1430 from Venetians. It was intense Siege, it cost the Ottomans heavy losses but ultimately, Ottomans prevailed over Venetians.

Anyway In Bayezid 1 reign (1839-1402), Janissaries become famous devshirmes. They are taken from Christian (not from Jews) population (Balkan races, Greeks, Armenians, Georgians, even some Christian Turks (remnant of Turk mercenaries from Byzantines)) of Ottoman Empire. In Mehmet 2 the Conqueror reign (1451-1481) all Janissaries (Contrary to general belief, their number was around 6.000 (10.000 number isn’t reliable)). In 1568, their number increased to 12.789, in 1609 37.627, in 1670 53.849) is equipped by matchlock. They still used bows until 18th century and melee weapons (spears, swords, shields, axes) until 19th century but matchlock became their main weapon after 1450s. Muskets replaced matchlock in the 16th century.

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Frank Kingdom (after Empire) was Germanic. In game, Franks represent Frank Empire. Am I missing something?

I know…that is what I said.

I know…this is exactly what I said…

I know…this is excatly what I said…??

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You said france is not represented in the game.

Maybe the translator incorrectly translated what you were trying to say?

The Franks were a Germanic tribe in the migration period ,they moved into the region that is todays France, these Germanic tribes evolved into the Kingdom of France. Even the French Crusaders that set out from France were known by the ME populace as Franks.

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