The card is beyond broken. You will always lose to Sweden in artillery wars and skirms don’t do enough damage to caroleans after Svea Lifeguard has been sent. It is way worse than Old Han back in legacy.
agree 100% , it needs to either be removed or just make the card the 25% hp increase, 30% range resist and +25% hp is too much.
6 mamelukes also needs to be a 1 time card or just 4 infinite mamelukes.
Possibly the torps need a further adjustment too, never seen such a fast eco as with the swedes with ironworks, blueberries and blackberries.
It should at least come with an increased cost like old han reforms.
Just remove the ranged resistance, 25%HP is enough, resisting the units that are supposed to destroy heavy infantry isn’t even close to be healthy
With Swedes op eco any cost would probably still be irrelevant, the ranged resist just needs to be removed, no other unit gets such a powerful card. Or perhaps it could give RR at the cost of reduced HP so at least melee units can do some damage, even then cav wouldn’t get close with caroleans ranged multiplier and platoon fire card.
If they take out the resistance switch, the card will be too weak for age 4 (age 3 cards usually have a 30% stats buff → 15%hp and 15% attack).
They could do that, but then the card would need to be transferred to the fortress age.
USA have an age 4 card that’s just carbine cavalry 25%+ attack, so I don’t see the issue with a swedes age 4 +25% hp especially when they have so many carolean upgrades to begin with.
Germany has the Uhlan card or Skirm card in Age IV (skirm is just +15%HP) and no one says it’d be too weak.
caroleans with ranged resistance effectively make skirms do 2.1x damage to them which is nowhere near enough, especially since Sweden can shet out a shetton of artillery in lategame.
The card needs to go. Or at the very least nerfed into oblivion.
The problem with the card is that the Range Resistance make the units too good in 2 important matchups:
1- They are way better at dealing with Skirmishers than any other ranged heavy infantry.
2- They trade fantastically well with other Heavy infantry from range.
I suggest we keep only one of the 2 features, after all Caroleans are already a better than average HI with the extra damage against cav from range.
If they wanted Caroleans to be better against Skirmishers:
Add a Negative multiplier to Range attack against HI (possibly 0.7) = this would remove their advantage against other HI and make them fight equally, while still being better than average against Skirms.
If they wanted Caroleans to be a counter to HI:
Replace the Range Resistance by a positive multiplier against HI (similar to Counter Infantry Riffle) = They would be an interesting replacement to Skirmishers for the faction while still being countered normally by other Skirms.
Or neither. They already have high melee damage (which counters HI) + longer range + faster speed + speed boosting ability.
I just read the thread on ESOC about this before logging to this forum, and I think the proposal of Plantinator adresses the problem better. I will link because I want to give credit where credit is due: Some suggestion of balance - Page 4 - ESOCommunity
Specifically I liked the suggestion of removing the Exiled Prince from Swedes, since at the moment they are reaching the Industrial Age way too easily, and this snowballs in all the other problems.
Probably replacing the Exiled Prince with a Scout (4 Hussars politician, since Swedes does not have a Cav age up option) will really hit the core of the problem on the Swedes, since now they will be somewhat forced to play on age 2 more.
I also think that the Mamelukes shipment should just a one time shipment, or have 1000 resources value like the other age 4 infinite shipments. (4 Mamelukes for 600 coin, 5 Mamelukes for 1000 coin, etc.)
Maybe a nerf on the melee attack of Caroleans are also welcome, as now they are killing even units that are specialized on melee combat, and don’t have a ranged attack like Caroleans do.
I can’t really explain why, but I have this gut feeling that the problem with Swedes is not on the Svea Lifeguard card.
Having being playing with the Swedes for about 2/3 weeks, I think there is much more depth to the issue than just this particular card.
I’ve read the post and all seem good suggestions yes but the card still needs a nerf and if you read the last posts the svea lifeguard range resist is equal to a 150% hp buff assuming that vet and guard have been researched, that’s still too much it needs to be 15% or less, i’d perfer it to just be removed and leave them with 25% hp buff.
The main problem with Svea Life Guard is that skirms don’t get to kill the caroleans fast enough. Even if you nerfed Caroleans’ damage output by giving them a <1 multiplier vs infantry they’d still take forever to get rid of. Meanwhile your skirms get rekt by their cannons and you can’t really make cannons of your own because a) Sweden can produce them faster than you can b) Sweden gets to have more of them because of the artillery pop card and c) chances are Sweden produces more Gold than your civ of choice.
Just make it a +30% HP card or remove it from the game altogether. In Legacy Treaty/FFA, people complained about Old Han being way too OP (it was by far the best card in the game) but Svea Life Guard is like OId Han on steroids.
Svea Life Guard isn’t really an issue in regular 1v1 Supremacy, but it breaks the game in Treaty or FFA. You’ll end up needing 6 shots from a skirm to kill them instead of just 4, how it should be. It’s effectively a +50% HP buff on top of all other imperial stats. As I previously said, cannons are not really an option because Sweden has a clear edge in artillery as well.
I can’t stress this enough, the card needs to go, simple as.
Because it is not an issue. The problem is Sweden gets too fast to it because it is still difficult to punish in age 2 (they have the best age 2 by far). Even if you do manage to take out outlaying torps, in-base torps still pay their cost because of bushes and wood, so it still allows them to get to industrial age easily. The 2 leather cannon shipment also stops almost every age 2 aggression. And they can get the equivalent of musket riders in age 2.
It is a huge issue in Treaty and FFA, not in 1v1 Supremacy.
It’s an issue in all modes
I did read the whole thread. I know is a significant buff, but I don’t think is the problem.
I guess what I am trying to say is: Whenever I’m playing Swedes, and I reach the Industrial age on 10-12 minutes, I have 3/4 military buildings producing units even thought I have like 20 settlers, I feel like I already won the game even before sending Svea Lifeguard.
I keep switching between civilizations, like Ottomans, Portugal, Japan, US, Dutch, etc. And Swedes are clearly much stronger than all of then. I just don’t know exactly why, and I’m sincerely don’t think is because of the Svea Lifeguard, that I actually rarely even have the opportunity to send before the game is finished.
Maybe is because of the Exiled Prince that allows Swedes to reach the fourth age so easily.
Maybe is because I can win fight that I supposed to lose just by switching Caroleans into melee mode since their melee attack is so good.
Maybe Kaiserklein was right on that topic when he said that the problem is the omega super blast eco system that Swedes have. But I have been told that the guy just know how to do skirm/goon semi ff, so his opinion is automatically invalid.
I guess the only way to find out for sure why this happens is by playing more Swedes on the ladder.
I don’t really play treaty often so I can’t say much, besides the fact that I am surprised that Swedes can manage to build Torps thought 755 layers of walls.
Sometimes I do play free for all when I am with my brother and some other friend and the number is uneven. And my experience is that Swedes is not really viable on FFA, because everyone burns down your torps. And I mean everyone literally, because nobody wants a Swedish douche depleting their resources.
And if you just stay in your base, them you get the old British dilemma, that you consume your resources too fast and run out of resources if your pushes don’t work.
But I do find this interesting. In my ignorance I thought that Swedes generally would fall behind in late game situations, when the natural resources are all gone and the torps cannot gather much more. Of course, you can always send the infinite elks (But also, there is blockade on long treaty modes) and maybe torps can gather from livestock without wasting villagers time. But I can’t think on much more uses from them.
How Swedes sustain themselves whiteout the torp economy? Is a legit question.
Yeah, it can be.
I will be able to play a good amount of time this week. Hopefully I will reach a more precise conclusion about all of this.
Well you probably have won whether you send svea or not, because not only is svea op but their eco is ridiculously op as well. Not really about just nerfing 1 of them or their age up time, if sweden never go age 4 svea is still an op card that needs changing as there’s no other card that’s so strong, even if you manage to compete with their eco maybe doing a port water boom or something then they just go age 4 and svea is the final nail in the coffin.
It’s all of these things op things put together that makes them ridiculous, if swedes had a terrible eco and could barely spam units then maybe svea wouldn’t have such a huge effect but even just a regular vill eco is enough to triple racks caroleans at age 4 so the card just needs to be nerfed significantly.
Its not, but since people just dont see 3 carded upgraded caroleans die like flies in age IV to general veteran skirms, they get scared.
The counter system is not supposed to give an absolute edge vs the countered unit. Svea is fine and is the only thing allowing caroleans to survive in age IV onward.
Want to kill caroleans? Research Counter Infantry Rifling, Card your skirms and do not expect to win battles with 10 skirms vs 30 caros.
Regarding the Mams. Yes that card is super OP. The issue that i have, is that every civ should have a merc OP card in age IV, not only sweden.