[Poll] Biggest wasted bonus on civilization

In game some civilizations have really strong bonuses on one area but lack some important technologies or eco bonuses. Most of the time it is due to balance reasons as the bonuses are too strong. For example Huns CA are discounted but don’t have final armor. But sometimes bonuses are from some general civ bonuses and the civ is not designed to play that unit. Cumans CA comes to my mind first.

I’m interested to see which one do you guys think as the biggest wasted civ bonus?

  • Cumans CA (Move 5% faster and train 100% faster but lack Bracer)
  • Koreans CA (Cost 20% less wood and armors are free but lack Bloodlines and PT)
  • Dravidians BE (Regenerate and attack ignores armor but lack Bloodlines, Husbandry,
  • Gurjaras Spearman (Cost 25% less food after UT but lack Pikeman upgrade, Squi
  • Cumans Camel (Move 5% faster but no Heavy Camel upgrade)
  • Saracens Galley (Fire 25% faster but lack any wood eco and Shipwright)
  • Berbers Navy (Move 10% faster but lack any wood eco and Shipwright)
  • Franks CA (+20% HP but lack Husbandry, Bracer, TR, Final Armor, PT)
  • Vietnamese CA (+20% HP but lack PT)
  • Teutons Scout (+1/+2 MA in Castle/Imperial Age but lack Husbandry and LC)
0 voters

Frank CA don’t lack husbandry. I assume you mean bloodlines?

Burgundian discount at stables and barely and stable units to play around with

1 Like

Burgundians’ Stable technologies cost -50% but no Bloodlines.

I’d rather have no Cavalier upgrade available in Castle Age but Bloodlines.

I think the idea is to make them feel different from Franks.
You don’t get tanky Paladins but you get a strong cavalry unique unit.


My top3: 1. Dravidians BE, 2. Koreans “Knight”, 3. Cumans CA.

Dravidians BE absolutely deserve a better treatment whether for the historical accuracy or for the gameplay. Let us guess the Bloodlines is unnecessary due to the regenerate, then I’d like to directly give them the Husbandry and the elite upgrade when they have no civ bonus for BE.

Korean stable is disproportionately weak. They do not need to be so weak for such the advantages they having now. Give the Plate Barding Armor, and one of the Bloodlines and the Blast Furnace, then remove the Hussar upgrade. If needed, change the class of WW from mounted archers to cavalry + siege and tweak the stats.

Just the lack of Bracer makes those bonuses for Cuman CA pointless. Clearly the reason is about balance, so what if we remove the Chemistry instead of Bracer? To make them lack 1 attack rather than lack 1 attack and 1 range. Being the first civ lacking Chemistry would be novel and potentially disturbing, but anyway they do not have any gunpowder units and buildings.

To me, giving the Teutons the Light Cavalry upgrade is totally fine. Many people were against it in the name of identity, however.

1 Like

Yeah. Sorry about that. Worse part is editing poll will delete the votes.

Are you serious or joking?

I won’t say it is wasted by any means.

Sigh :face_exhaling:

How? Koreans don’t have any bonus for Knight. Maybe you should read the topic again.

1 Like

I agree. Dravidians need a little bit more options.
They are currently the 2nd least popular civilisation (only Bengalis are less popular) so giving them something that makes them more interesting would be very nice to have.

They don’t get the last armour upgrade so just giving them Husbandry and the Elite Upgrade would give them vulnerable but hard hitting units.

They totally need Camel Riders, Steppe Lancers and Battle Elephants!

I know people love to dog-pile Dravidians, but the correct answer is Franks CA. They lack pretty much everything bar being Heavy Cavalry Archers.

At least some civs with no Thumb Ring have Bracer and most of the armor upgrades, these guys have nothing at all.

1 Like

The thing is the Franks don’t need another strong unit.
They could easily live without like the Bohemians.

1 Like

Im saying this bonus could feel more impactful on a civ with a fuller stable tech tree instead of so few options. Please dont twist my words

Are you really not understanding my point.

It would be like if Aztecs had half cost dock techs or Celts had half costArchery Range tech bonus

Oh of course. Wasn’t advocating for it being anything other than bottom of the barrel.

I see. I still don’t think the bonus is wasted though.

What did I twist?

Nah. It is not even close to that extreme. You are exaggerating.

What are you talking about?
The only technology they are missing is Bloodlines.
Paladins are +40 HP compared to Cavaliers so that’s a huge bonus over all the civilisations that only have fully upgraded Cavaliers.
Plus they get Paladin for half price, and that after being able to research Cavalier earlier.
That means they will likely field Paladins before anyone else.
They are easily stronger them Franks Cavaliers.

1 Like

My point isnt if the bonus in a vacuum is strong, its that it doesnt get to fully shine because “Stable Techs half price” ignores the fact that three whole ass lines of cavalry are FULLY UNAVAILABLE therefore a civ that in the future might want such a discount for other stable units cannot get the full bonus because its wasted on a civ that only has 2 lines of stable units.

So for a civ that might want half price on a fully stable is ruined because of repeated civ bonuses. Mayne non civ crafters dont understand but Ill try to explain


I get it. Cumans or Tatars would be the biggest beneficiary. But again, it is far from calling wasted. Let’s agree to disagree I guess.

If I understand you correctly you are saying this half cost tech is more useful if the civi has multiple stable units like mongols or tatars?If that is the case wont it be op as well since you have mobile counters for everything?

But wouldn’t such a discount be overpowered for a civilisation that has a lot more technologies in the stable?

Also half price Paladins alone is pretty good.

Wouldn’t it be the same logic to say that the Franks 20% more cavalry HP is wasted on a civilisation that can’t even train Hussars?

Dravidians and it’s not even close.


Kinda is, but in a vacuum the bonus was originally just knights, and for some reason this was deemed the civ that needed the generic cav booster. And yet Mongols have 30 for 2 stable units… but not scouts oddly even way back before the millenium