[poll] Dock Split?

[Skadidesu]

The developers testing a new 1 page dock layout where most of the technologies are moved to the University. This change is hotly debated.

What do you prefer?

• 2 page Dock (old system)
• 1 page Dock (upcoming change)
• Dock split into 2 buildings (like Chronicles)

Splitting the Dock into 2 buildings like Chronicles (Port + Shipyard) would require the most work for the developers because they have to make new models for all Architecture sets and also edit a lot of old campaigns and then also test them.

Though they could keep the old none split dock as a separate building for backwards compatibility with old scenarios and maps.

This would also require changes to civ bonuses but it would enable new civ bonuses like discounts for one of those buildings only.

[DukeOfLorraine]

Let’s see how the rework plays out first.

How to split the dock & shipyard would also be a question, which ship do you put where ? Chronicles does it with the cheap lembos in the dock and specialised heavy hitters in the shipyard, but splitting the main triangle (now galley, hulk & fire ship) may railroad build orders too much.

[Quasibrodo]

@Skadidesu

Though they could keep the old none split dock as a separate building for backwards compatibility with old scenarios and maps.

yeah I think this is the way to go. I think the devs can go back and revise the official campaign scenrarios, but leave the legacy dock for the bazillion mods out there.

[WindwardHail620]

I am curious about the changes, but I understand some of the hesitance.

Lets wait till it is released, play around with for a (halve) year or so and then re do this poll.

[DukeOfLorraine]

Specifically civs who made the artillery UT comparatively less appealing ?

[Zelley00]

I am currently fine either way:

• Current system feels like the least convenient. But since it is only midly annoying and nothing more, I would be fine/happy keeping it.
• 2 Docks system is convenient to train only eco ships or only military ships with a “Select all buildings of type” hotkey without needing control groups. But it is not a big deal anyways as we may need to separate between front docks and back docks, and between docks of each ponds anyways. Nonetheless, it might make hybrid maps more interesting in tournaments if players need to invest a lot more wood to boom after taking water control, and more wood to protect their fishing ships; therefore hybrid maps wouldnt be mainly decided by who gains water control.
• 1 page dock + university techs sounds convenient, and shouldnt affect much the meta besides minor balance tweaks (nerf Persians, buff Bohemians, Malians, Spanish) and giving more time to react when noticing the opponent reached castle age. No problem with that.

[HestiaAoE]

@DukeOfLorraine

How to split the dock & shipyard would also be a question, which ship do you put where

Dock/portal: fishing ships, transport ships, trade cogs

Shipyard layout:

Galley	Fire	Hulk	UU
Warship Upgrade	Fire Upgrade		UU Upgrade
Demo	Demo Upgrade	Cannon Galleon	Cannon Galleon Upgrade

Not ideal still. But having eco dock and military dock separate means it’s convenient to have different gather points and locations, which is more important.

[Skadidesu]

@DukeOfLorraine

Let’s see how the rework plays out first.

@WindwardHail620

Lets wait till it is released, play around with for a (halve) year or so and then re do this poll.

The problem is getting it changed after half a year of testing.

Rolling back a change or doing a second rework is not going to happen. They can make small tweaks like moving icons and techs around but not like introduce a complete new building later.

@DukeOfLorraine

How to split the dock & shipyard would also be a question, which ship do you put where ?

No military ships in the Dock/Port. All in the Shipyard, unless they want to introduce a Scout Ship or something.

@Zelley00

Nonetheless, it might make hybrid maps more interesting in tournaments if players need to invest a lot more wood to boom after taking water control, and more wood to protect their fishing ships; therefore hybrid maps wouldnt be mainly decided by who gains water control.

In Chronicles the Port costs less then a Dock but the Shipyard costs more.

So you can start fishing for cheaper.

[SamePorpoise303]

One page dock and techs in uni like they’re doing I feel it’s the worst of the three options, you don’t really solve any of the issues and just move stuff confusingly.

Docks being split would be ideal but unrealistic as you would basically break the game at this point. Not only they need to revise all campaigns but what about mods? I feel like fainting already…

2 pages docks as it already is is far from ideal but it’s fine enough on second thought. It’s the only object with 2 pages, well there are builders… but there’s plenty of space for a new ship and techs I think.

[bigbossbro08]

Just make new dock system and make a “Legacy Mode” tick mark. Something like Antiquity Mode. Basically for newer expansion and mods, it’ll load old tech tree if that is true. Otherwise it’ll load new Dock changes. Thus saving old mods…

[Juggernaut8704]

Where would this second naval building be placed though?

[bigbossbro08]

Good point. Unless if we have 3rd page where we bring walls, gates and outpost. C’mon devs have the source code.

If Im not wrong SWGB had 3rd page?

[Juggernaut8704]

So to have a 1 page layout, you want to have a 3 page layout?

[bigbossbro08]

Villager making buildings isnt as painful as it is with Docks. Its always 2 click for vils. But for Docks you have to remember what is where. Military ships are what you would make the most but you just cant do it as easily. Even making techs all on 2nd page is something said by casters like T90.

On top of that already existing bad water triangle.

[CouguarLoup7693]

We can choose only one answer so in order of preference :

First : Dock split

I prefer a two building system like in Chronicles.
With this system we can put all the units, upgrade and technology in naval building. We can also having individual upgrade for ship like in chronicles.

But if we put this system in place what military ship will be add in the dock in addition of the civilian ship ? A trash unit like in Chronicles.

Problem : lot of rework for the old campaign. This is very unlikely we have this because unlike Chronicles AoE2 not start from scratch but have a already 250 campaign scenarios.

Second : 2 pages dock

If not possible a 2 building system I want a 2 pages dock. With this we overcome the limitation of the iu of the one page dock (overlapping) and we can research all the naval units, upgrade and technology in one building without overlapping.

For researching the naval technology we already must go to another page in the dock. Going to another page in another building (university) is very counterintuitive for me. And keeping the old red arrow to change the page will be continued at least for the building menu of the villagers, so let’s continued this mode for the dock.

With this we can put the unit on the first page and the technology and upgrade on the second page.

On another topic I proposed a two dock page (see image here).

Third : 1 page dock

One page as proposed is good because we have all the unit in the front page. The problem is overlapping because of the 3x5 tiles of the iu. Maybe with a sixth column ? But the better thing is to merge the upgrade of the military ship and the upgrade of the demolition ship.

Researching naval technology in university ? Why not if we keep access to the demolition ship for all civilization.

Having all the ship in one page : very good thing

The best things of the rework for me. No need to go to the second page when you have already researching all the naval technology.
I support putting all the naval unit on the first (even in the two pages version of the dock)

Not merging the demolition ship upgrade with the other ship upgrade : a bad thing

Demolition ship are always a spoil of resource because in all case you will lost your demolition ship. So keeping an independent cost for the upgrade make demolition ship less appealing now that we will have a counter of the incendiary ship which we will not loose (hulk).

Also merging the upgrade technology of the (galley/incendiary ship/hulk/demolition ship) will resolve the problem of overlapping.

I support this merging in all cases (2 pages dock, 1 page dock or dock splitted in two buildings).

[AbuzzJam4677680]

As game keeps develop, more and more regional units /new line will be added. Eventually, we will need 2 buildings.

[bigbossbro08]

Add another option

Introduce togglable mode like previously “Antiquity Mode” which basically changed some behaviors of the map and trade carts. This toggle will act as a compatibility between old mods and new mods. If “Legacy Mode” is ticked and by default old scenarios have it toggled then all scenarios in the game will play with old tech tree settings specifically for Docks. Future new civs will simply have generic full dock tree as priority is the new Dock Tree. This way we issue the problem we had. It solves the problem with new scenarios. It even makes current changes reworks not breaking old scenarios as well.

Now we have 2 Docks. Similarly to how Chronicles works. Also add a new build page for Villagers. Where you’ll have all the walls and gates. So it’ll be Economic Buildings, Military Buildings and Defensive Buildings. So you can solve Sicilians, Bulgarians problem. Atleast it’ll allow to make Sicilians able to build towers. Even giving up room for scenario designers as well.

Best option overall:

Add AOM style 4th row(ALT+ZXCVB). Because grid count is why all the major dock problem happening just to fit it in one page.

[SMUM15236]

I’m really confused at this moment. All options have some pros and cons.

If 5 column of UI can’t be changed ever, new place for rally point and ungarrison should be considered. Also, one thing no one is mentioning. Dock can train both eco and military units. But this game doesn’t allow different gather points for different units. This one was always an issue for Dock.

[RatcicleFan]

I’d add one more row