In the upcoming naval rework three ship line (galley, incendiary galley and hulk) will be upgraded together and the demolition ship will be upgraded alone.
Do you want :
- One upgrade for all ships (Galley, incendiary galley, hulk, demolition ship)
- Two separate upgrades (one for the galley, incendiary galley, hulk, a second for the demolition ship)
Demolition ship are always a spoil of resource because in all case you will lost your demolition ship. So keeping an independent cost for the upgrade make demolition ship less appealing now that we will have a counter of the incendiary ship which we will not loose (hulk) and who is upgraded alongside of two other ship (galley and incendiary ship).
Also merging the upgrade technology of the (galley/incendiary ship/hulk/demolition ship) will resolve the problem of overlapping for civilizations who have a naval unique unit in castle age (Korean and Viking) who loose the access to the demolition ship with the proposed rework.
With this merging of technology we save a slot in the iu.
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Hulk, Fire Ship, and Galley form a rock-paper-scissors-style trio, so having their upgrades bundled together feels reasonable. Since the Demolition Ship isnât part of this triangle, it having an independent upgrade line is also acceptable to me.
Since itâs going to have an independent line, Iâd like the Demolition Ship to feel more distinct. For example, making it accessible only starting from the Castle Age. That way, if you advance to the next age earlier than your opponent, you could not only research Medium Warships earlier but also start training Castle Age level Demolition Ships right away. This would also align them in the same age with other explosive units like the Petard.
As for the issue of shared button slots, I personally would prefer the UU ships to replace regular warships, so that the civs would also gain access to Demolition Ships, and the Dravidians would get the ungarrison button back as well.
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Koreans never had demo ships. Vikings losing them is not good, but they got Fire Ships instead. And the Portuguese donât deserve (or donât even need) demo ships at the moment due to already getting too many stacked bonuses and taking other civsâ bonuses.
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Alternative suggestion:
- remove Demolition Raft again
- make Heavy Demolition Ship upgrade automatic with Chemistry
Removes the technologies from the Dock without merging them with the 3 main ship lines.
2 Likes
My preference is for separate upgrades for each ship line, since that is how all other unit lines in the game work, and I would prefer to have consistent game logic. The upgrades could be pretty cheap and fast, especially the Castle Age ones. The war galley upgrade affecting fire galleys and demolition rafts was always weird, and the justification for merging the upgrades seems to be a purely UI-based (rather than gameplay-based) decision.
I like the idea of not having demolition ships until castle age, especially since it takes up the âunique shipâ space of the dock now.
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We really needed a second naval building
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Thatâs one way to do it. Or rearrange the two pages so that all ships are on page 1, all upgrades are on page 2.
To some extent, renaming the upgrades to âMedium/Heavy Warshipsâ effectively addresses the issue. The upgrades represent an improvement to the ships themselves, adopting larger and more durable hulls to carry the sailors and flamethrowers.
To some extent gameplay as well. Ships already are expensive enough to make and mass. On top of that cant use beyond water after you win it. Thats why I think making it 1 upgrade line is much better. Imagine upgrading Feudal Warships individually. In past you had Feudal Galley with already upgraded Castle ships. It was even worse.
Good idea but it solves UI issue not already existing bad water gameplay. Thats why I keep saying instead of doing all these, Simply copy paste Chronicles Water balance. It basically solved all the water counters aside far water fishing/gold ming which really needs Mule Cart like solution. I propose turning transport ship into dropsite for this. Also water walling and towering only in shallow waters.
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Sure, and similarly we could have one upgrade for all infantry unit lines, one upgrade for all cavalry unit lines, etc. But thatâs not the approach in the rest of the game, and I personally like to have consistent game logic.
Yes, I see your point. I had considered this before posting earlier, but concluded that I donât think it would be a problem if the Castle Age upgrades were sufficiently cheaper and quicker than the current War Galley upgrade. But obviously this is hard to judge without actually testing it.
I think that was one of the main things they wanted to solve with the water rework, they arent gonna add the second page again xD. Splitting the dock would be the best way to do this imo, though i like the current system too
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