Agreed.
I know the Inuit and Sami, but who are the other two? I like the idea of the Inuit having excellent crossbows, as they actually had them in real life, which is super unusual for a New World people group. Maybe it can be their UU, or just a bonus.
Looking at the poll, a North America DLC would have the Iroquois and the Mississippians as they are the most popular civs by far. A third one could just be a meso American civ like the Toltecs to wrap up the continent.
The other two are Siberians, Yakuts are far-east Siberia, Nivkhs are moreā¦.north-central Siberia.
Eh, I disagree, at the very least do Purepechas as āthe oneā, but I think there are enough options in Mesoamerica to get one DLC for that area too, and then put Taino caribbeans in as the third civ along with the North Americans.
Yes, exactlyā¦the Hauds from AoE 3 but with Hiawathaās campaign (since in AoE 3 they have the Fire campaign), something like the founding of the confederacy between 1542 and 1580 (which is roughly how long Bayinnaungās campaign lasts)ā¦the UUs would be the Iroquois warrior and, from the Siege Workshop, the Mantletā¦unlike in AoE 3, they wouldnāt have a stable or cavalryā¦
It would be better to simply call them Puebloans, then youād include the Anasazi and the Mogollon as wellā¦
Yes, the campaigns would be:
Puebloans: The Legend of Cibola (Tiguex War/Coronado Expedition (1540-1542)) (basically a Puebloans vs. Spanish campaign)
Haudenosaunee: Hiawatha (1542-1580) (this would be a Haud civil war, but you could also face the French)
Mississippians: Tuskaloosa (1539-1541) (De Soto Expedition) (basically a Mississippians vs. Spanish campaign)
Yes, those three are correctā¦ besides, the Cherokee and Lakota were part of the Mississippian people before the 17th century. It was after their disappearance that they separated. The Cherokee remained in the Mississippi region, while the Lakota moved westward, driven by European colonization and the adoption of the horse (a similar thing happened to the Mapuche, who, pressured by the Spanish, embarked on the conquest of Patagonia in the late 18th and early 19th centuries)ā¦
The Tainos could be due to the rebellion of AgueybanĆ” II in 1511ā¦ The Skraelings are debatable, since itās unknown whether they were Inuit or Thule, and that would be wading into an ethnic quagmire just to have them fight the Vikingsā¦ You could include the Hauds and then directly incorporate them into the Viking missions, justifying it by saying they later moved south to the Ohio River in 1142, pressured by the Thuleā¦
Yes, good pointsā¦
Yes, it will be a Chronicles of Rome (Foundation of the Roman Republic, Caesar, Gothic Wars, who knows?)ā¦then pure Sub-Saharan African DLCs in 2027 and maybe later revisiting the SEA with the Siamese and Filipinos before touching Oceaniaā¦
Yes, you have many civilizations you can includeā¦ you could even split the North American DLC into two DLCs: Mesoamerica and the Caribbean (Purepecha, Toltecs, Tainos) and then another North American DLC (Puebloans, Mississippians and Haudenosaunee)ā¦
The Mississippians of course, after that Iroquoians/Haudenosaunee because the story of Hiawatha and the Great Peacemaker would be a cool campaign without Europeans.
For the Other section I choose Algonquians, I see as a ābridge civā like I see the Tupi.
I also have a few suggestions for Historical Battles, because there is more information than most people think.
Ani-kutani (~1100) is a Cherokee story (they are part of the Iroquoian language group, they can be depicted by the Iroquois/Haudenosaunee, but Mississippian will also work because they were part of the mound builder culture).
In this story the Cherokee tell how they rise up against the mound builders and there cruel priesthood, after their succes they promised each other they will have never have such hierarchical society.
I imagine it work out similar as the Age of Empires I Yamato campaign Coup where you need sent tribute every X minutes to your overlord in order to keep the peace, until you are strong enough to defeat them by destroying their wonder and castles.
The Mississippian kingdom of Joara and explorer Juan Pardo (1567ā1568), he build six forts (castles) in present day North Carolina. After he left, all six forts are destroyed and burned down by the Mississippians. On the largest fort they also build a mound. After that the Spanish never returned that far north.
I images every fort/castle you destroy as the Mississippians gave the remaining Spanish forts a bonus like the tec Citadels and Fortified Bastions.
(The Wooden Fort we have seen in the Tupi promotion would be perfect for the it).
The Warrior Maiden could be an Iroquois/Haudenosaunee Historic Battle.
The NarvƔez expedition (1527) could be a from point A to B Historical Battle
Etzanoa and the retreat of Juan de OƱate (1601, I know just too late).
The story of Pahtahnkum could also be worked out as possible a Historical Battle.
Crow Creek (~1150), my idea for the scenario need a bit of cultural background explanation that need to be told in the opening narration.
In a lot of North American cultures you can be adopted in to their society if you are needed/worthy, the narrator is adopted in the Crow Creek settlement, but when he was out hunting and standing on top of a cliff, he see a big war party approaching under the cliff. He recognise that the war party is part of his old society.
In game you control a Mississippian scout unit and need to decide to run back to Crow Creek settlement and help to defend it, or run to the war party camp and join up your old group and attack Crow Creek.
To win you need to build a wonder if you decide to help the defenders, or destroy it if you decide to join the attackers. There is a side mission to gain/prevent the tec Atheism that add 100 years to the wonder.
The Attackers could have acces to Haudenosaunee units and UT, while defenders keep the normal Mississippian Tec tree.
And lastly, of course it would be cool to see the Viking encounter from the Native perspective, the Algonquians are the best candidate for that (because where Vinland suppose to be, however if you want to have the story in and around Greenland, then Thule scenario only units would also work in my opinion)
Wahunsenacawh (the father of Pocahontas) with his brother Opechancanough could be an interesting historical battle before the British arrive, they consolidate power of other towns and were leaders of a Confederacy before the British arrival.
Also the story of Paquiquino and the burning down of a Spanish Mission in 1571 and the Spanish revenge of it, would be a cool story beat in that scenario.
Or if we are willing to go past the 1599 mark, a cool campaign.
Also with the inclusion with the Tupi, the TaĆno and other Caribbean people as the Arawak could become a possibility, if I might speculate, the dev might have them already in mind because the Tupi did not receive a blow gun unit, leaving it as a possibility for this area.
Also the natives in Florida are really cool like Timucua and Calusa, they were very effective fighting of the Spanish and French.
Because I never considered them a possibility for the game before, I did not keep as much notes about them as the rest. Still I know there is enough materials for cool campaigns and Historical Battles.
I think the Mississippians, Caribbean and Calusa/Timucua could easily share the same Mount Building Architecture, while the Haudenosaunee and Algonquians should have their own Woodland Architecture. That means there even might be enough material for two North American DLCs, before the Tupi I never thought that could be possible.
I assume you wanted to write 1540? In that year De Soto was on the loose in the Mississippian heartland.
I would recommend to give the The Other States of America podcast a listen, season four talks about Ponce de LeĆ³n (1513-1521) till the chiefdom of Powhatan (c. 1545 ā c. 1618) there are a lot of campaign and historic battle inspiration there.
But he talks in great details about the early days of Europeans in North America and the world before their arrival.
Did any of the native americans have female warriorās?it would be interesting to have more female uus if they used any.
Awesome ideas, Iād love to see them realized as scenarios or campaigns!
Societies of the Amazon interior had them (the river owes them its name). Iāve seen ideas to represent the interior non-Tupi tribes and Amazonian cities under the āTapuiaā umbrella, though this might sound a bit similar to āTupiā.
There are already unit models representing those Amazonian female warriors, but no corresponding civ.
Im asking about north american female warrior types.
Took a quick look at Wikipedia. Seems that thereās a decent amount of recorded female Apache warriors. I guess there can be an umbrella Athabaskan civ for Apache and Navajo, and a campaign about their migration southwards, which happened around the end of the medieval era? The individuals recorded are from much later however.
Thereās also this Cherokee concept that honestly seems great for a unique unit, the question is, would she fit Iroquoians or Mississippians better?: Ghigau - Wikipedia
I donāt think we should try to force female UUs in where they donāt naturally fit. Women in combat were an exceedingly rare thing in history; it was only about 30 or 40 years ago that they became commonplace. So donāt expect to find too many examples.
In Pre-Colombian North America women could hold places of power, for the Algonquian a word for leader is Weroance, the woman equivalent is weroansqua. Two examples of a weroansqua are Oholasc and Opossunoquonuske.
For the Mississippians you had The Lady of Cofitachequi.
Jigonhsasee was very important for the Haudenosaunee .
The woman of the Haudenosaunee where the main decision maker for the āinternal mattersā of the village and the farms, they could also demand for war or peace.
If you count Mesoamerica, you could include Princess ErƩndira of the PurƩpecha.
But to answer your question: No, I am not aware where if somewhere in Pre-Colombian North America was common for women to pick up arms and go out of their way to fight.
Thank you, I was never looked deeply into the Apache. I was unaware of it.
Depending how the civs are designed, the Cherokee is part of the Iroquoian language family, but during the AoE II timeframe they were part of the mound builder culture.
(For campaign story reasons, I almost prefer the larger umbrella civ of Iroquoian over Haudenosaunee, all Haudenosaunee are Iroquoian, not all Iroquoian are Haudenosaunee. The Cherokee, for example, interacted with De Soto!)
We should get N.America and Africa civs first, then maybe Oceania and then Europe. I think the first 3 regions are the most important to do first.
I really hope we never get a ranged scout unless they have a specific melee attack vs huntables or they sacrifice speed for los
If you could find a title for the Apache Warriors Iām in to atleast look into a it a little further.
An Umbrella Dene civ is fine at this point, as Aapcheans and Navajos havenāt split yet. They began migrating around 1,000 AD and will continue to do so. But as for a campaign, the Navajo hero Nayenezgani - Wikipedia Nayanezgani would be my choice.
The Cherokee wouldnāt have Ghigaus yetā¦ or, they would, but the problem is, the Cherokee are essentially a Theocracy ruled by the White Chiefs in this period. Very much involved in the Mississippi-sphere. Ghigau- the real-world inspiration for the āCherokee Princessesā- arenāt really the true holders of power yet; itās all in the hands of the White Chiefs, their religious figures. But, around the 14th century (Probably), the Cherokee fought a civil war and ousted the White Chiefs, and it became a dual system more resembling other woodlands moieties, split between Whites and Reds. After that Ghigau become super important.
If you want a UU for the Cherokee, I suggest Nunnehi- The defenders of Nikwasi, a Mound that was under attack by Shawano (The Fort Ancient people). The mention of Shawano and the fact it takes place on a mound makes this event certainly medieval. The Nunnehi, the āimmortals under the dirtā, emerged from the side of the mound and attacked the Shawano in full war-paint, and though they struck with their tomahawks they āCould not be seenā by the enemy. As for their appearance, they can just look like a regular old Cherokee warrior!
I voted for Inuit, Mississipians and Anasazi (Puebloans), but from what I heard Haida could be cool as well.
Thereās just some big issues with this list: Lakotas, Comanche, and Cree donāt exist yet.
The Lakotas are a tiny tribe making up the larger āOneotaā Culture. They number maybeā¦ a thousand people? But theyād mostly be spared the tragedy of the infectious diseases (Or, got hit a little less) and then horses allowed them to build a Massive Empire.
The Comanche literally donāt exist yet. They wonāt leave the rockies until around 1600 at the earliest.
And the Cree do exist, but theyāre essentially small household groups with no further organization, as all evidence seems to indicate for the period.
Mississippians are the big-ticket name for the era, but thereās no such thingā¦ and thereās no such thing as Pueblos either. This is because both of these terms are culture groups for numerous peoples that share a society but have no other comparisons. The reason the Pueblo didnāt want to show up in Civ V isnāt because they donāt want to show up in a game, itās because Pueblos arenāt real. It would be the equivalent, for example, of taking all the Balkans- from the Albanians to the Romanians- and calling them the āRed-Tile-Roof Peopleā.
If I wanted to show North America, I would break it up piecemeal. Iād focus on the West with Chacoans, Hohokam, Mogollon, and Dene. Thatās four civs that mostly cover the area. Then, in the East, I would do Muskogeans, Hoga (The Dhegihan name for the people who built Cahokia), Iroquois (I donāt feel a need to call them Hauds yet, though we could. Just know it stands in for all Northern Iroquoians) and Anishinaabe, who owned the Great Lakes.. but even this would leave North America very scanty, even if it covers some major areas and every civ is in contact with every other civ. Maybe a small third Xpack with Inuits and Wabanaki could be added later, with lots of anti-Viking action!
It depends. Most North American nations didnāt really observe a Gender Binary in the way the west does. If youāve heard the term āTwo-Spiritā in modern politics, well, thatās basically a gloss for like, seventy or so different gender identities shared by an impossibly wide variety of native nations. Natural result wasā¦ āWhat do you mean buff strong women canāt fight? Theyāre big and tough! Way tougher than our shamans (Who, in many societies, were effeminate men!).
This actually kind of hurts having a lady warrior though, becauseā¦. it wasnāt seen as especially stand-out in most societies! So what I would do is find a society that we know women fought in, or find some social class that women dominated that might have been tied to war. Again, if timelines allowed, Ghigau would have been perfect for Cherokee- they did plenty of fighting! But itāll have to wait ātil AOE3ās time period.
I, personally, prefer the 1142 date. The story of Hiawatha literally mentions an Eclipse- itās sort of central to how the confederacy came to be. 1450 might be when it crystallized, and Hiawatha might be a somewhat composite figure, but Hauds coming out that early sounds perfectly plausible to me.
I agree with this, other than slotting in some more Asian civs as well, honestly I also think Europe over Oceania, thereās not much else left needed in Europe but there are a couple holes to fill, and tbh I am not super enamored with the idea of Oceania civs (though our new Tupi civ does open the door a bit more to Oceania iāll say)
