My problem with this whole discussion is that even tho we’re mostly fairly in agreement, will the developers actually do anything? It seems clear that they’re busy working on AoM and even if they weren’t, they seem like they would be worried to make a change like the things we’re suggesting—even those that aren’t really suggesting all that much.
It seems to me that the best chance of getting something changed would be if someone made a “more accurate grens” mod, that way they could just steal it…
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TBH, this is the problem with all wishlist’y threads for new civs, DLC, minor civs, units, etc. I think no one expects these to implemented, however for the very slim chance that Devs read any of these threads, it doesn’t hurt to keep in in the general forum consciousness - at least Devs can see the kind of things players might like. I think the latest large update was telling - some really rather niche (in the broad AoE spectrum) textures and names were added to many European units, which shows that they do see some things on here!
Plus, many folks like to read and discuss intersting threads which is a big positive (I love reading well-detailed DLC wishlist civs, for example 
).
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How about we transform Grenadiers into the ultimate heavy infantry? By heavily nerfing their movement speed, removing all their multipliers, and increasing all their other stats, we can create a troop that excels in defence. When stationed in one spot, these Grenadiers would become an impassable wall, but they would be extremely vulnerable when on the move. Skirmishers and artillery units would be able to annihilate these new Grenadiers, but they would outperform every other unit type.
Maintaining their high siege damage would still be crucial because getting them to the enemy base would be a significant challenge, so there should be a rewarding payoff for accomplishing this feat.
With these changes implemented, Grenadiers would assume a unique role that doesn’t overlap with any other unit type (Musketeers) while remaining a viable and strategic choice in the game.
Estimated stats for this new Grenadier:
- Hitpoints: 300
- Cost: 130 food 70 coin
- Tag: Heavy Infantry
- Population space: 2
- Movement speed: 3
- Range attack: 30 (with an area-of effect of 3, with a range of 14 and rate-of-fire of 3) (dealt as siege damage)
- Melee attack: 35 (with an area-of effect of 1 and a 1.5 rate-of-fire)
- Siege attack: 45 (with a range of 14)
I would happily see the area of effect reduced if a grenade throwing charged ability was introduced.
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I also appreciate that more emphasis is being placed on historical accuracy. Regarding the user wish list, I believe it’s a complicated matter because many requests can disrupt the gameplay or even lead to users requesting new civilizations (major and minor) driven by personal desires or nationalism.
I consider that the fans’ wish list should be “a guide” rather than “a straitjacket”. I also believe that one of the advantages of the AoE series is that it is based on HISTORICAL TRUTHS. A fantasy RTS typically tends to focus on what fans request (and this often leads to inconsistencies in the lore, as is the case with Warcraft). However, for AoE, its “lore” is real history, undeniable and demonstrable history that, whether you like it or not, you have to accept.
Where a fan can truly get involved (in my opinion) is in the gameplay because fans have hundreds or perhaps thousands of recorded hours. We know what makes gameplay attractive and what doesn’t make sense. It could even be said that many fans have more hours played than the actual AoE developers.
I like the idea; “new Grenadiers” resemble the Zuaves but with grenades and good siege capabilities. I would consider giving them a bonus against melee cavalry (since they have more HP), a speed of 3.5, and resistance against both ranged and melee attacks. We could even consider giving them a “negative resistance” of -10% against artillery; this would make them more vulnerable to artillery, and ironically, their most effective counter would be “standard grenadiers”
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Sort of disagree here. I would recommend the following grenadier stats (other stats are the same in game):
Speed: 4.5
Range: 10
Resistance: 50% vs Ranged, 25% vs Siege
Bonus: 1.75 vs Artillery
Grenadiers suffers from two issues right now: 1) they die to artillery in one-shot and 2) they don’t do much damage unless the enemy units are clumped together. Making Grenadiers artillery resistant (Veteran Grenadier can now survive a Falconet shot) and giving them bonus against artillery creates a niche for Grenadiers past Age 2, that of an infantry-culverin.
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Would this be if they had a riffle? Or with the grenade attack they have now? Cause if you mean the second then just no.
So here was my Idea and thoughts of what a Grenadier would look like. They don’t get a veteran upgrade, cost 100f 80g, 2 pop, and only become available in the fortress age. They are more based off of Soldados but the idea is more that they are shock or anti-shock troops.
British Grenadier
Imperial British Grenadier
Fully Upgraded British Grenadier
We can still use the old grenadier unit as a basis for a sapper.
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Man I wish I could mod well, absolutely love this.
All the civs having the battle bluster might be a bit much tho, what would y’all think about each of the civs having a unique card that’s boosts their gren in some way?
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I would like the grenadiers to look a bit like the foot riflemen of the royal embassy once you kick off the Napoleonic era after revolting in the French revolution.
I would see them equipped with a rifle like the musketeers instead of their sort of weird ugly blunderbuss, except that they would have a charged skill which is a grenade launcher
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Wow, great job!
Though I’d call them ‘Assault Troops’ rather than Shock in their description to avoid confusion with Shock Infantry types.
They totally should be grander Soldado types though. Soldados true benefit should just be as a halfway-house of musket and (our new improved, wishlist) grenadier, where as Euros should get the less powerful muskets alongside the much hardier, siege oriented Grenadiers (though their actual musket damage could be mediocre to balance out for Euros that don’t have default access to muskets).
I love their look and rather like the Sapper too!
For unit recognition and silhouette I would probably veer our speculative Sapper as being an armour-donning one to avoid confusion with grenadier models (as they were a legit apparel all the way up to the 19th century), though if there ever was a shipment linked to them, their appearance could change to a Sapper within a Grenadier regiment (like the current model) rather than Sapper specialist.
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How are you giving them acces to the battle bluster? Did you replace the grenade launcher card?
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Yeah I just changed the grenade launcher card to instead of granting the grenade launcher to enabling the battle bluster. I forgot to show it but the grenade launcher card affects the sapper as it normally does. Instead of a melee siege and range attack (drummer’s range attack) they get the grenade launcher.
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Have you thought about ways to make the different civs grens slightly different?
Does this include the 4 home city cards that improve the attack and hit points of the grenadier which are unique to the British??? (Scots Guards, Coldstream Guards, TEAM Grenadier Guards and Improved Grenades) And the advanced arsenal upgrades ??
And does a single fully upgraded Imperial Grenadier beat two Imperial Redcoats in a stand-off shoot-off ??
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I’m not sure on how to get a 2v1 fully upgraded shoot out to be tested but here is one fully upgraded musketeer.
Yeah it doesn’t I was choosing British to show to show the extent of their potential.
Probably not in the same way that you are thinking but yeah there are some little differences that I have
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With battle bluster they’d most definitely win.
P.S. maybe not a straight 1v2, but in a 10v20 yes they would.
Yea I meant more then just things like how much damage they deal in range, it could be that but also things like maybe the Russian one having better hand attack, and maybe the Spanish one has a slower rof but does more damage.
Also, do you have this in the mod browser in game? I’d love to test it.
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A more simpler version is this mod
But the other mod I’m working on is this one where I am making more drastic changes.
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If they ise a musket and have bonus vs cavalry, then whats the purpouse of musketeers??
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The idea would be that in mass they are not as good as musketeers at doing the job of being a meat shield and dealing damage–basically, you want it so that in an all-out normal shootout you’d rather have musks. But, if you wanted to do a flank or hand attack charge, or sneak attack their base from another angle, then in those cases the Grenadiers would be better.
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