RR can quickly spiral into OP realms so I’d stray away from it. Although if you had a civ who had a 10% rr card I don’t think that’d be to bad.
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I understand. As a personal note, I believe the sappers would look more menacing with an axe, that’s all 
Maybe a 30% boost would work. Unlike hand infantry, grenadiers and musketeers do not have the “Cover mode” stance (which gives this infantry the “meat shield” function). As I mentioned, giving grenadiers a speed of 3.5 could be considered for balance reasons.
PS: Isn’t it time to change this icon? I mean, clearly, the unit shown in the image is a musketeer, so it could be confusing 
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Even with 3.5 speed 30% rr would be crazy. Opponents would be forced to build cannons for a quick defense if you’re attacking their base…that’s a thing many civs can’t do.
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Or with an axe strapped to his backpack, or have him welding his axe and have a sappers shovel strapped to the backpack (any other Sapper’s tools attached to his person, a bonus!). Basically he still needs to look like he has lots of utility than just as an all-out axe-man
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of note that if you do this to the grenadier it probably cannot be tagged as grenade trooper( or would require some shadow teching) like the soldado since that would mean it gains splash damage on its ranged attack and would basically make it murder everything , even if it has lower attack per pop
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Why don’t we just leave grens as they are but let them build certain buildings? It would be a buff, and would give them a definitive use as a military support unit
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so, while idea number 2 basically seems to be my suggestion i must admit i never viewed it as something to apply to basic grenadiers, for me it was always suppose to be the basis of a unique unit and not to replace an already established unit.
are current grenadiers historically accurate? no, but they are gameplay interesting.
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The way jimmy has made it, sappers would basically do what grens do now, at least after sending the grenade launcher card.
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Yeah that is what I did with the grenadiers above. They are still grenade troopers but I changed what incendiary grenades do. I think it is just an oversight on the developers side as the tech is to increase the aoe of all attacks and as og grenadiers only used grenades that was ok. When they introduced soldados it ruined that.
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I don’t think its an oversight since on release the the soldado only gained a 0.5 aoe instead of the intended 1, which required a deliberate shadow tech to achieve.
they knew about this and designed a nerf built in. its basically the only way for soldado to be a viable unit lategame else their stats not that good
edit: units with splash damage also need a hardcoded damage cap so its definitely deliberate
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That is true, then I dislike the fact they get the aoe on their range even more. What, they upgrade to shotguns?
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look at the akan musketeer, basically a shotgun
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I mean you could get away by saying they’ve loaded their muskets with swan shot which is your musket-size grape shot, but it still doesn’t sit well with me!
I’m sure if there was ever a musket-wielding, proper grenadier, the Devs could think with it to ensure its a normal musket ball…
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Question for everyone:
I remember that the Maceman initially had melee resistance, but it was later changed to ranged resistance. In retrospect, this change was something positive since a Maceman is already powerful in melee combat.
Perhaps the same could be applied to the “Line Grenadier” (only giving them ranged resistance), which would make them powerful but not invulnerable in melee combat.
Macemen are less problematic because their range is 1. The whole trinity is range, damage hp afaik.
Comparing the macemen to the gren is whilest not entirely off, clearly not the choice, that’d be the huaraca. Which incidentally imo is a better gren due to range.
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Ok, I’m willing to accept this as leaning to heavily into the historical side of things as well as being told this is a very bad idea but here it goes:
I wanted to see if the Ottoman army used grenadiers the same as European armies and it didn’t seem to be the case. And so it started me thinking about how the Humbaraci would work. Researching on a very reliable source 
, the Humbaraci were more of artillery crew than actual infantry units. So the role of the European grenadier doesn’t fit. So I was thinking of bringing them back to their original state. It also seemed like they were sappers, so allowed them to be have the building ability of the Sapper unit above but they are able to build a little better than the Sappers. Battlefield Construction allows Humbaraci to build Barracks, Stables, and Artillery Depots sooner(Age5).
So did they have grenades on the front lines? Yes the Ottomans were some of the last armies to use grenades in the midst of battles. I found the concept that Janissaries carried grenades and so we have the above ability. Sending Hand Mortar card allows Janissaries to have the Battle Buster ability as well as changing their siege damage from torch throwing to grenades. They are also affected by Incendiary Grenades after Hand Mortars are sent The ability may need a damage buff but I wanted to cut it in half compared to the original ability as Janissaries are only 1 pop.
So what do you think? Hot or Not
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Hot but ottos don’t need more LOL
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That is probably true but would you leave them out of the above changes for grenadiers?
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Interesting, I came up with the idea based on this video:
As you can see, the rodeleros defeated the macemen solely due to “cost-effectiveness.” It was an epic battle, and the macemen put up a great fight. Nevertheless, the rodeleros won because of cost-effectiveness. The macemen appear powerful but not invincible. I would like to replicate this concept for a hypothetical “line grenadier” unit.
The idea is intriguing; the Ottomans were the dominant power for many centuries within the AoE 3 timeframe. In my opinion, the Ottoman civilization in AoE 3 could serve as a foundation for including other Middle Eastern civilizations in the game. So, from my perspective, you have a green light to make the necessary historical changes; I’ve always believed that “art imitates life” 
You might could give them some kind of grenade attack. But I definitely wouldn’t give them the same kind of charged abilities others civs 2 pop units have.
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