Possible Sicilians Team Bonus Changes(feel free to suggest)

You train it, use up a pop space and do nothing with it, because there’s nothing you can use it for by itself. So you haven’t gained anything by making it. (except for losing a pop space). If it was something like a fire galley, I’d share your concerns, because yeah, you could click into the direction of your enemy and it’d actually do something. But if you make a unit that you end up never using, then you’ve not achieved anything meaningful with it, so what’s the problem?

The current bonus is terrible. Makes them way too strong on nomade/water maps. It’s not only about the landing. Also having the possibility to scout the whole map(enemy docs etc.) so early is pretty whack.

An instand unit for free is a terrible team bonus.

Not sure how to change them myself. The suggestions at the top are pretty bad tho. They are totally random and/or overpowered.

At least they should change it to “its for free but not instand”.

you need to consider how this works with other team members, you’ve done this a couple of times and all that is going to happen is people will disagree with you

how is monastery techs, going to work with aztec ally?

how is monk conversion range going to work with spanish?

infantry attack with goth allies?

its not only about how strong the team bonus will be with sicilians, its about how OP they are to the allies. at the same you have placed such moderate bonuses alongside insanely OP bonuses…??

if anything monks and UU LOS(even though neither fit sicilians), otherwise none of these…

You didn’t understand. Since the 1 pop space is negligible (I mean, unless it pop cap you, which is easy solved anyway…) training or not training it it doesn’t matter.

Until the game ended, or that TS is destroyed, it’s the same thing. It’s a free unit that it’s immediately accessible in any moment. If the unit would spawn at the first dock, it would basically have the same effect.

So in reality, it doesn’t matter when you decide to “click it”, there isn’t any reasoning behind because there is no consequences. From the moment that you build your dock, that unit is there for you, whether you use it or not.

The states “not trained” and “trained” are basically only in theory. In realtà, since you can pass from one the the other without any cost (in resources or time) we can affirm that those 2 are basically the same state.

It’s like if I have to boil some water, and I have put the pot on the fire to do it. But assuming I’m on a condition when I don’t need neither the fire or the time to have my water pass from the cold state to the boiling state, can I still affirm that those 2 are 2 distinct states? Only on appearances they are.

Sure. But a unit you haven’t even trained clearly has no effect on actual gameplay :slight_smile: So I’m not sure what to add here.

But if you can pass from one state to the other with no cost, can we say that those 2 states are different?

So whether you have trained or not, it doesn’t matter, since you can change that immediately, and so it’s like that unit was already there.

You need it, you have it, you don’t need it, you have it anyway. You need it later, sooner, it doesn’t matter. From the start of the game that unit is there for you, and only apparantly in 2 different states, which are so similar that we can affirm that are basically the same.

So assuming that, if the bonus would be changed to: “after you build the first dock, a TS is spawned” it would basically have the same exact effect as the current bonus.

Ergo, the timing of clicking it doesn’t matter, if it’s comparable to the case where you have that TS from the beginning. So when you actually click doesn’t matter, nor require strategic thinking. It remains to decide onyl when and where unload you units in the enemy island, removing any earlier planning for such landing.

I mean, there tons of possible effects regarding landings that could be used as TB, either alone or combined between them, such as:

  • TS have – LoS more.
  • TS cost --% less.
  • TS takes --% less time to train.
  • TS are --% faster.
  • TS have more armor (not as much as before of course, but a smaller effect combined with some other effect may work).
  • TS can fish (so between landing aren’t useless).
  • Fishing ships can transport one unit.

Even a different balance of the current TB could work, like:

  • The first TS is free, but takes double the time to be trained.
  • The first TS is trained immediately, but cost 50 wood more.

Infantry +2 LOS

Simple boost that would help with Dark and Feudal age infantry play.
Not super useful but a team bonus shouldn’t be too strong.
Sicilians will never be a picked water civ, so them trying to force transport bonuses annoys me.

2 Likes

I consider sicilians to be better off being a monk-themed civ with them having a tech like ‘first crusade’ rather than buffing their cavalry in any way; It would be better to buff their monks and make them into another civ with a team bonus for the like. Giving them techs like redemption would be a good start.

At least Thematically it seems more fitting than any water bonus.

Know what would be cool tho? Water-Based Build-able Towers available in shallow water built by fishing ships.

The current team bonus is just silly and broken on Islands.
Just replace it with, all Ships have +2 LOS, useful for the whole team on water maps, benefit other strong water civs but isn’t broken.

Yes, you either have a unit, or don’t have a unit. Doesn’t sound like the same to me.

But if it cost nothing it like you always have that unit.

It doesn’t matter whether you see it or not, the unit is there in the instant you need. Ergo, it’s like you always have such unit.

Basically, if the bonus is changed into: “the first dock spawn a TS”, the bonus wouldn’t practically change.

Yeah it would. You’d have a unit. But now when you make a doc, you can make a unit.

But both conceptually and practically is the same thing.

Your strategy doesn’t change because you click it sooner or later.