Potential new bonus for a weak civ

So I was browsing the AoM tech tree, and I noted this Thor bonus:

  • You can build a blacksmith in the first age and access to all techs righ away (other than having extra techs…)

So I was thinking, this bonus actually can be brought to AoE2 (yes, some things from AoM and AoE3 can be brought to AoE2).

The idea is basically that in feudal age (not in dark like AoM) you can access to all blacksmith techs without age restrictions. For example, in feudal you can research fletching, then bodkin, then bracer, if you can afford them of course…

This would strengthen your early and mid game aggressions, at the expense of you eco, (so it’s not a free buff).

I initially thought that this bonus may be given to Italians (full BS techs and good infantry, archers and cav in general that could benefit from this), but then I thought that this actually goes in the opposite direction of cheap age up (at that point it’s better to age up sooner and get also line upgrades).

Then I thought that it could be given to Indians, but their tech tree isn’t really suited for such bonus (lack arbs and knight). Also, their +1PA for cav bonus already give them a similar effect, so I don’t really see the point.

What do you think? Could be a worthy addition to AoE2DE? And if yes, on what civ may work?

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For archers its massive difference (range and attack and also bodkin arrow affordable) so this bonus musn’t work for them.

I think it can be work like that (for example):

Italians can research archer armour blacksmith techs without any age requirements.

Indians can research cavalry armour blacksmith techs without any age requirements.

Basically just give a line. Or it costs more if you want to research early. I gave civs for example not that important.


True, but you spending 200f and 100g in feudal for just bodkin on top of already 100f and 50g for fletching. It 2 times more what you usually spend, so it actually a big buff to your military and a big drawback on your Eco.

If you add bracer it’s another 300f and 200g, so more than the double of what you already spent, and all that without considering armor upgrades or upgrades for other units.

Yes archers would have more range, but they would still be countered by skirms…

Meh, you can make all armor at least (infantry, cav and archers) and I still see it weak, but that’s not the point.

The point is that as Italians it’s better to age up, to get access to a better eco and line upgrades too, and to get to condos and gunpowder.

But it would be useless for both infantry and cav, since they lack both last armor…

If you give just armor and no attack for just one line it’s not that useful, the strength of this bonus was on flexibility.

But it can work with all armor upgrades, or just infantry and cav upgrades/archers upgrades, so it’s not really necessary that it cover all BS. But it’s necessary that the civ have all those techs.

As for costing more it’s not necessarily, you are already researching a tech on an age when you usually have less resources (or you prioritize other upgrades) so it’s already balanced.

It’s way too strong, you could just stay in feudal and go archers with bodkin and even bracer and wipe the floor with anything the opponent can produce.

But your enemy can go to castle, have a way better eco and meanwhile just defend with skirms (unless you are turks, burmese or franks…).

Then they would get the same techs with also line upgrades, while you would struggle to keep up having spent all those resources.

I mean, it’s not without risk such strategy.

Blacksmith techs aren’t that expensive especially considering their effect. Nobody wants enemy archers outrange his skirms or men-at-arms absorb pierce damage like huskarls.

Problem is Blacksmith techs are strong and cheap. Maybe I gave poor examples for civs but it was example.

I meant you can add this to game if a age difference multiples the cost by 2 and just a line of upgrades.

Bodkin arrow definitely pickable in Feudal and it’s worth to pick in Feudal. Bracer can come late because you already have +2 attack and range.

I think something like this could make good synergy with the cumans.
It could stimulate to play cumans more time in feudal and make Castle Age for them just a lil transition to Imp.

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No lol. It’s not because the devs forgot that age restrictions are a thing that we need to start actively wishing to copy paste the Cuman yet again.

No IMHO this trend of giving thing an age earlier is really poor and uninteresting design.

First off it’s a nightmare to balance, then even if it’s balanced it fails to deliever interesting games and match-ups.

Cumans are a proof of that, they have basically no strong bonus except for the feudal boom potential, so most of the games involving them play out with the cuman player taking eco lead and opposite player taking map control, and in my opinion gameplay shouldn’t be dictated so heavily by the civ match-up.

Early access to buildings/techs bonus are just too strong compared to every other and must be counter balanced taking away a lot of things from civs they are given too. This leads to games where “early bonus” civs must absolutely try to take advantages of them to avoid being overrun by superior overall civs, which might seem interesting at first glance, but in the long run it’s gonna lead to the same game over and over, and in general I think it’s a lazy and uninspired way to think at balance.

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It’s definitely so much more boring when you want this on so many different civs. Cuman were enough, now we will have 2 more civs like that, it’s time to stop. It’s like in early DE days where people would ask for civs that start with +150 wood and get archer attack with relics, or thought the best way to buff Teutonic knights was to make them boosted by relics in some way. Good thing the devs didn’t feel like making new civs back then 11

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No offense but you can’t give bodkin arrow in feudal age, that tech is an auto win, you need to learn better about the game.

This is aoe2 not aom or aoe3, the meta is different the competitiveness is 100 levels ahead of any of those games, any change like that is a game breaker.