Julian the Apostate tried to reinstate paganism in the unified Empire. Theodosius made Christianity the official religion in the unified Empire
Then Arbogast and Eugenius capitalized the pagans discontent caused by Theodosius efforts, they reestablished pagan events, renovated the Temple of Venus and Altar of Victory, and wage war against Theo. Thus, Frigidus happened, WRE army got obliterated and sped up WRE collapse for years to come.
Personally, even if they go for a Rome-themed DLC, I’d prefer that the added civs be Goth-style ones, representing late Roman peoples that hung around into the Dark Ages: Vandals or Alans, for instance.
If Rome is added, I think it could still work if they put in the effort to really have them represent late Western Rome. That means limitanei and palatini rather than traditional legionaries from the Caesar days. Still, I’d rather that resources go towards adding genuinely medieval peoples rather than stretching the game’s time scope even further.
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Well, the game actually do have those Late Roman army units. That’s why they’re making this DLC, they already have their units, just tweak those Italian architecture a bit to look more like they had in Late Antiquity. At this point, I wouldn’t mind them doing a total rework for the Byzantines if they can slip in those badass Legionary and Centurion units.
Images from: ageofempires.fandom.com
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What if this Roman civ will not only represent the ancient Romans, but the city of Rome itself as a major political player in the Middle Ages - in other words, the Papal States? Only a thought…
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I would love for a proper Byzantine building set to be added. Then that opens the way for Armenians and Georgians in future and the Bulgarians could also use the set so we don’t have so many on the Mediterranean set - keep that for Portuguese/Spanish/Italians/Sicilians only.
The new Roman civ can also get the new Byzantine building set.
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WRE did not have kings, only emperors.
So when did the Roman Empire died? 476? 1453?
If you want a fraction of the Empire represented as the WRE, because ERE its not enough or it transitioned “to much from classical Rome”, keep in mind that the Roman Republic was very different from the Roman Empire. Even the Empire of Octavius Augustus was way different from the Empire of Constantine the Great, or even Romulus Augustus, for the same matter.
Point is that the roman civilization was in a constant change and adaptation. The Roman State went from a kingdom to a republic and then to an empire. It went from polytheism to monotheism, it went from latin to greek. Yet it was still roman.
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By the 18th century, muskets and arquebushes were already used on a large skill in Europe for over a century.
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No, I don’t want classical Romans, I want the late WRE. Probably it would be the same of ERE, but ERE covers much more time, like having Goths and Spanish from a Iberian Peninsula POV.
What I tried to say is that before the fall of Rome, 50-100 years before probably the society wasn’t too much different and it was on the way to Dark Ages, so it’s not so out of place.
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Porting AOE 1 Rome to AOE 2 with new classical Roman unit models.
Creating late WRE for AOE 2 with new late Roman unit models.
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Yes but the Goths lasted until 711. The WRE wasn’t a thing after Siagrius in 486
Theres a clear point in time in which Goths became Spanish and the civs are based in periods divided by nearly a thousant years. Goths represent Ostrogoths too who cant be represented by the Spanish.
In this case the Byzantines are designed around 7th century Byzantium and they can still represent perfectly well the early Romans, and theres no clear point in which oneciv begins and the other end. Also, the Romans didnt last much in the AoE2 timeline compared to the Goths.
No, is a continuum
Yes, this is true
They can represent, but also there’s room to distinguish them. Byzantines have Greek Fire as UT, also Cataphracts (used also in Roman times, IRC) that are more an eastern thing.
Thing is that for Romans/Byzantines you have the clear succession line of leaders from Octavius Augustus, up to Constantine XI.
For the Visigoths to the Spanish, you don’t have it. The Visigoth Kingdom dissolved after the Arab invasion of Iberia. The mountainous northern parts of the peninsula were not conquered but were fragmented from a political point of view. After several mergers of kingdoms rose the new Spanish state. Spain as we know it only formed in the second half of the XV century after the marriage between Fernand of Aragon and Isabela of Castile.
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There were cataphracts in Milan, London and Carthage
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I was thinking more about cultural lines, not political POV. People still spoke their languages when their kingdom fell.
Regarding Spain, XV century is key for the process of the construction of the country, but until XVIII you don’t have the supression of the kingdoms. Portugal was out and in for several times and we understand clearly that Portugal isn’t Spain.
Speaking of timeframes, in the tradition of classic historagraphy, the end of Medieval times were the Fall of Constantinople (1453) or Columbus arrival on America (1492).
The composite monarchy of Aragon and Castile was created on 1469. What we have ingame it is really more a Castilian faction that Spanish
Yeah I said that the Romans used them, but I mean, didn’t the ERE developped their own Cataphract tradition and were a strong point of their armies?
The development of Roman Cataphracts started during the Unified Empire
Not enough room imo simply because in the dark ages the West and East Romans were practically undistinguishable and our current civ is mostly based on the early perood. Also, the Romans are getting their own cavalry UU in the new civ so the cataphract point is kind of silly.
If Byzantines can already represent perfectly well the West Romans whats the point at adding them. They werent diferent enough culturaly or in terms of administration either. Theres a clear evolution of Roman culture unlike in Spain in which they just became their own thing imo.
AoE2 isnt just a medieval game, and it case it was just a medieval game there would be no reason to add the Romans. It includes until the XVIth century and Spain is just based on colonial Spain so its an Spanish civ not a Castillian one
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What happens when a state changes it’s language (like ERE which went from latin to greek), the state remains the same, the culture also. Do you need to civs just for this?
Regarding the Spanish, they are the result of the mixture of the Visigoths (the ad-stratum) and the local Romanized population (the stratum). (same can be said about the english, which are the result of the mixture between anglo-saxons and normans, the french being a mixure o local romanized population and franks (a germanic tribe)).