First off ty devs for showing delhi some love especially on 2 of the 3 least effective landmarks.
Also it appears from the dev comments the intent behind the changes to delhi is to up the delhi tempo. IMO i think the nerf to keep cost will actually make Compound of the Defender even more of a default age 3 landmark… and not just for the discount but bc of the age 3 technology slowburn tech is going to become more critically beneficial!!
DOME OF FAITH
DOF lost the training penalty it received some time back in a desperate attempt to slow the delhi choo choo down!!! So we’re almost full circle with a slight uptick on current DOME vs original. Original Dome was not a mosque and original Dome scholars cost 75g.
IMO this is the right direction for DOME, and the dev comments suggests they hope it will up the tempo of delhi and result in resources saved per minute. I think it will reinvigorate the Dome playstyle a bit especially for those with high micro. HOWEVER, I’m skeptical if this is enough? I hope they will revisit the Dome training time and consider a 15 to 20s training time. Because the dev comments admits this is a specialized unit so its not one that you constantly produce like villagers, so I’m of the option this niche unit, using this landmark such be readily available as needed.
HOUSE OF LEARNING
HoF recieved a buff to the gathering capacity tech (from 5 to 10), this equates to an upgrade from 2.2% to ~4% gathering efficiency assuming an non-gathering time of 1.5s a trip and wheelbarrow is researched and both age 2 and age 3 gathering technologies included. It isn’t gamebreaking good but since you get it faster and it’s better, that makes it a legit buff (if only delhi had a legit feudal TC boom into fast caslte like most other civs…).
Next the out of combating healing of mosque got a buff and now makes mosque equal to abbasid keep healing and is a legit buff if you’re army is stationed behind a set of upgraded towers with a mosque for field healing.
Overall these changes are safe and beneficial and I hope a sign of good things to come with a civ that is bottom 3 in win rates at decent to high level play.
1 Like
Delhi at the higher levels of play is still one dimensional until castle. And DOF as it turns out doesnt do enough to give delhi economic saving/producing option in feudal. Also having sacred sites in feudal generates so much gold that it further takes away from the benefit of discount scholars.
Example going the pro build of TOV and adding one scholar during age up transition puts all your research timers at 27% faster than having no scholars. For example horticulture goes from taking 157.5s down to ~124s. However the time savings is really only from having 1 scholar (100w mosque + free scholar) @ ~140s research time down to ~124s research for additional cost of 130g; 16ish seconds saved on the 3 basic gathering techs…but really is a functional benefit to just food and wood since you’re no longer gathering gold and not gathering stone.
The blacksmith upgrades time saved for having multiple scholars is only FUNCTIONAL if you have a respectable army, this large army synergize well with TOV and scholar discount of DOF becomes less relevant to having the large capable of establishing dominance of the sacre site gold which more than offsets the DOF discount…
IMO current DOF
benefits early healing of wounded raiders and small skirmishes.
Gives delhi a cheap route to scholars if capturing sites becomes difficult.
Benefits fast castle play into speedy relic grabs.
These all pale in comparison to TOV massive army infantry superiority that can readily defend sites maintain high gold income necessary to mass sufficient scholars.
This is an example how slow even the current DOF is when considering the feudal standard economic upgrades.
Assumptions:
-
You can click all researchs asap. And you can immediately and continously train scholars out of DOF.
-
BECAUSE you start with 1 scholar already housed in a mosque all the technologies mention start at ~140s. Then every 30s that a new scholar is housed the research times get updated.
With the above assumptions it means you’d have trained 3 scholars (having 4 total housed in mosques) and have 26s remaining on all your feudal standard economic upgrades (like horticulture).
This would have cost you a total of 3 scholars (80g x 3 = 240g), and taken 116s to research the upgrades. Compare this to what you would have spent and the associated research time required for only havin the 1 scholar that comes free with your first mosque.
Comparison
- 0g and 140s research times ; which is a savings of 240g and a loss of 23s slower on said upgrades. Which of the 2 is a better savings? 240g not spent or the 23s sooner upgrades? You would need 92 villagers gathering inside that 23s sooner upgrade rate to JUST break even with the 240g upfront cost? I just dont think you’ll have 92 villagers inside that time frame.
Now i know there are way more feudal upgrades than the 3 referenced so the actual savings will get better the more researches are impacted by having more scholars. The purpose of this example was to show how insignificant the 23s savings would do to impact the game and that there better be multiple multiple benefits more than this to justify picking DOF over TOV (or even TOV and making just 1 scholar in transition which would start all your upgrades at 27% faster than no scholars).
DOF should either train scholars in 15s OR the landmark should start off with 3 housed scholars (4 total if its the same mosque built). THE second idea would actually boost the economic tempo and give delhi serious defensive option.
At diamond and above rank 1v1 delhi is struggling vs mongols Ottomans and now abbasid?!(good for abbasid).
Mongols
Feudal mongol units are all better than delhi feudal units with the exception of infantry influenced by TOV; however mongol mass is easily and consistently larger than delhi’s in that dark to feudal aggression period follow by mongol’s seamless transition into economy via trade which further exacerbate the dichotomy… diamond+ win rates vs mongols over delhi 6 to 4 and it gets worse at conq at 7 to 3 mongol favored… This is disappointing.
Ottoman
This MU has gotten less lopsided in favor of Otto, but still otto favored overall. Delhi and otto both take about the same time to get going in their aggressive feudal pressure… problem is Ottoman just does it all better thn delhi:
- better cav,
- comparable to superior infantry due to mether buffs,
- feudal healing (with high micro a better than delhi efficient option…),
- free units as opposed to unsafe sacred site gold that doesn’t directly make anything for delhi in feudal…except scholars?
- Vizor points that can grant up to 8? Janissary in feudal which absolutely eats to ghazi raiders and alike, period.
Diamond+ shows a ln about 6 to 4 otto over delhi; however conq shows delhi favored almost 6 to 4??? Maybe just low sample size or maybe conq figured something out??? Nevertheless the longer trending data from previous similar patches suggest strong otto favoritism and really not much changed (sipahi take 4s longer to train? And delhi DOF produce scholars 15s faster…
)
Abbasid
I’m personally bias to this current matchup now favoring abbasid only because delhi has for the absolutely longest time been effectively an auto-win vs abbasid skill for skill. The military wing change and further fertile Cresent and fresh food buffs have worked wonders. Even though i think composite bow is TOO strong…this MU is predominately decided in feudal (even if it goes the distance). Delhi can’t keep up economically with abbasid early and absolutely not late. Delhi’s only viable option is a mid game timing around 15-20min window; but once that’s missed its basically GG. realistically Delhi just needs its own equalivant economic boom option to be in line with the other civs feudal eco OR an enhanced defensive posture to go into castle where Delhi really shines???
At the highest level (low sample size) delhi is actually the lowest win rate and having more MU issues. Hopefully we get more and more games on the books to gove us a clear picture.