Hi, I think Mamelouks is not a good unit considering the gold cost. I mean, They get destroyed by camels, skirms, pikemans, Balista Elephant, Camel archers, Mangudai, teutonic knights, persian elephants, huskarls. They cost a lot to spec into. What are your thoughts on them? They even get destroyed by towers and castle since they have camel armor class. It’s too easy to kill them and they are the most expansive uu in the game in term of gold. What are your thoughts on this? Thanks
They get destroyed by camels, skirms, pikemans, Balista Elephant, Camel archers, Mangudai.
Uhm what? They wreck camels, do okay vs skirms (as they do meleedmg and can pick the fights), can just kite pikemen, Balistaelephant idk because noone ever builds them, mangudai take huge bonus dmg from mameluk so while they can technicially outmicro them, its really rough. Only unit you’re right is the camel archer.
The problem with the Memeluk is that there a full mass of upgraded elite mameluks are incredibly strong, so they have to be expensive to not be OP. They unit is really hard to balance, everyone who saw what 40 FU mameluks do to paladins in TGs lategames can tell you. That beeing said, the goldcost is imho a bit too high.
Camels have bonus damage vs them, while Memelukes don’t.
The Mamelukes as an UU is really good especially when you mass them, but of course and everyone agree that their armor class and their cost are really bad and need a good buff to make this unit more viable. 85 gold cost and need a castle and they have the normal camel armor class all these things make the unit hard to mass and use, so already everyone with Saracens will just use the normal camels and xbows, it is rarely to see this unit especially in 1v1
-Give the Mameluke +1/+1P armor.
-decrease the gold cost by 10
Maybe “wreck” was a bit of an overstatment, but since you can just clump up your memelukes, they can easily kill camels.
Not true. Last time we killed Saracen Mameluke SO with Imperial Camels in a 4v4 TG.
It’s possible to kill Mamelukes with camels the same way it is to kill any ranged unit with any melee unit. It’s about mass.
If you have enough Camels you can certainly overrun Mamelukes but they have decent speed, they’re moderately microable, and they’ll be able to get a good trade in most cases once they’ve built up steam, even against Camels, excepting an extreme imbalance of forces on the side of the Camels. Generally possible but very expensive to do since the Saracens have to produce solely via castles and the Camel player can use much cheaper, probably far more numerous Stables.
No camels actually wreks them ans cost a lot lot less to produce. Mangidau kills fully upgraded mamelouks I did a 40 vs 40 on senario editor and mangidai cost a lot less to produce. Mamelouks get even destroyed by catapharcts. They are just a bad unit for this price point.
Yeah that could be good then its worth to make them. Even catapharcts counters them.
Mamelukes are not good against Archer units, whatever type it is. That’s why Saracens players will support with skirms.
A unit that specifically has Cavalry Armor against anti-cav bonus damage. The only cavalry unit in the entire game that has a Cavalry Armor stat above zero. It’s unique factor completely nullifies the Mameluke’s bonus damage, in a way no other unit does.
So, you’ve looked at what could be argued as the two best possible units, ranged and melee, to match up against the Mameluke, found out it loses, and are complaining about it? I’m sorry units have counters?
Look at all the hard counters I have listed, this is the most expansive UU it should do well in many situation. The mamelouks is jsut too niche
The problem with your “hard counter” list is that practically your entire list is wrong.
Yes. This is the precise counter unit in melee. Mamelukes still have the micro advantage and if you micro against Camels, Mamelukes can easily win against equal numbers.
Skirms get utterly massacred by Mamelukes unless you put something in the way. Mamelukes do all melee damage and skirms have practically no melee armor. Yes, they get the anti-archer bonus damage, but unless you’ve got protection the skirms won’t last long enough to do enough for it to matter. And in that case, you can’t force the fight against the Mamelukes because the mamelukes are more mobile. In general, if your backline unit of choice is Skirms, the Mameluke is probably killing you.
Not in the slightest. Whereas camels actually have some health to survive a few attacks, Pikeman get absolutely murdered by Mameluke masses. You need an absurd amount of them to do some amount of damage, and even counting that, with hit and run the spearmen line do absolutely nothing against Mamelukes besides forcing the player to spend micro time kiting them.
You want to go into one of the most expensive, least used units in the entire game, because you think it’ll save you against Mamelukes? Alright then. I ran the test. Post imperial (including double crossbow, siege engineers, Chemistry, the works) Mamelukes win in a 40 v 40. Well howbowdah. Looks like you need to learn to set your Mamelukes to Staggered formation and patrol them in if you think the Mameluke loses this fight. Important to note that I didn’t micro it at all.
Two of the most expensive UU’s in the entire game to upgrade, and both ranged. I’ve been over this. You should be supplementing your Mamelukes with skirms at the very least to handle massed archers because that’s the main counter to mamelukes. Complaining that a counter exists to a unit doesn’t make that unit weak. Especially when those units are specific and extremely expensive.
In terms of VS mangudai, I’d much rather have the Mameluke over practically any other Cavalry unit in the game if I need to deal with it lategame, but I’ll make that point in a bit. Mangudai are stupid strong.
The Teutonic Knight is extremely durable against everything that does melee damage. Maybe you shouldn’t be investing into melee units when your opponent is playing Teutons? Saracen archer line is FU.
Nope. Persian elephants get massacred by Mamelukes in a non-scenario editor test when you actually micro the micro-intensive unit. This is one of the very few units in the game that utterly obliterate the War elephant. It’s not an issue of “can you micro it” because this is practically the easiest thing in the world to do. You can only make the argument that the War elephant beats the Mameluke if you refuse to micro to make a completely worthless point, which is “But with no micro…” Which is exactly the same argument I could use If I were being disingenuous against the Mangudai…
and the camel archer.
Against Huskarls, both armies patrolling into one another, Mamelukes crush Huskarls 40 vs 60. How many were you imagining to have to kill the mamelukes? Mind you, we are again doing nothing besides moving the units in to fight, and any micro use favors the Mameluke.
So no, the unit is not too niche. I have absolutely no idea where you are getting your ideas from, but some of them are flat out wrong before skill of the player comes into focus, and player skill means everything when you are using one of the most microable, most costly, most deadly units in the game.
Mameluks are great units. Yes they have strog counters, but they also counter the strongest line and UU in the Game., usually also quite strong against the units you supplement them often.
Here agearenas counter video:
And against champs + halbs: You can just run away if massed and counter with archers, also very common for saracens. Against small numbers they get wrecked by mamelukes.
I like them, mames are a great unit. Countering all of the OP new UUs + eles. And also not too strong with all the possible counters.