Problem with the matchmaking system

[Rebel]

Good afternoon folks!

I have recently returned to the game after a long break, and i feel the need to share my thoughts on the current state of the ranking system. To be honest it feels significantly worse than it was at launch. Since coming back, I have lost 200 points, often hitting 6 or 7 game losing streaks. While I understand that many factors like personal skill and team synergy play a role, that matchmaking itself seems broken.

I want to be clear, I dont mind losing rank. Im perfectly fine with drooping points if it means I will eventually face opponents and play with teammates of a similar skill level. The problem is that the system isnt doing that.

Today i played several matches where the gap between the highest rated player on my team and the opponent’s team was a staggering 500 points. After a crushing defeat, the system thought it was a “great idea” to put me against the same high ranked player again but this time with an even weaker team. I cant understand why the system puts a team of 850-950 MMR players against a team from 1200 to 1450. My last three games were not even competitive, they were just pure annihilation.

[Cajocu01]

@Rebel

. I cant understand why the system puts a team of 850-950 MMR players against a team from 1200 to 1450

The sad reason is that there arent enough people. So at certain times it Just matches whoever it finds after a while of searching.

This has pros and cons. The pro is no player will stay in 30 min queues until something appears or have a message show up that theres no games for him. The cons is that you Will get this uneven matches.

Any game, dota, lol, aoe, would be have similarly of their active population at a given time were to be reduced to what we have currently.

[Urban_Hunter]

Welcome to the game. This has been the case for at least the last eight months. I’ve lost 12 of my last 15 games because of this matchmaking. According to official data, this problem can only be solved by increasing the player base, which will never happen. This topic has been discussed several times here on the forum.
Furthermore, there have been cases of random god selection changes in ranked play after the release of the latest god pack.

[FossilConch2830]

Well, devs can add cross platform which will increase player base and kinda solve that problem.

[Cajocu01]

This is already a thing. Its a toggle option, Just like military AQ

[Ashinferno]

Usually I would agree with the argument that there are not enough players. But after careful review of my multiple games I am totally convinced that the system does not know how to balance. I don’t play much but even in my few matches at least 50% of them could have been easily balanced by swapping some players between the teams.

[Rebel]

I understand the reasoning behind why the system works this way, but that doesn’t change the fact that it simply isn’t working. I can accept a compromise where players from different MMR levels are pulled into the same lobby to shorten queue times, but it is fundamentally unfair to put a low-MMR squad against a significantly higher-tier team. If the lobby is mixed, the system should distribute those players evenly across both teams instead of stacking one side with veterans and the other with newbies.

​People often argue that a small player base is the problem, but how are new players supposed to join and stay if the matchmaking is broken? If a new player gets stomped 5 or 10 times in a row because the system keeps matching him against superior opponents with even weaker teammates, they’ll simply quit the game.

​What is the developers official statement on this issue? Is there any plan to solve this problem?

[Cajocu01]

@Rebel

but it is fundamentally unfair to put a low-MMR squad against a significantly higher-tier team

Well the other alternative is telling a player “theres no games for you, go do something else” or tell players them playing together is not a guarantee after X time.

@Rebel

If the lobby is mixed, the system should distribute those players evenly across both teams instead of stacking one side with veterans and the other with newbies.

If they are all solo players sure. But if theres a group of players that are together it would be unfair split them by force

@Rebel

​People often argue that a small player base is the problem

Its not really an argument, its the main reason for it. Its not justifying that its a good thing.

@Rebel

If a new player gets stomped 5 or 10 times in a row because the system keeps matching him against superior opponents with even weaker teammates, they’ll simply quit the game.

How would you solve the issue? Its easy to complain and its not like you are wrong, this things Ideally shouldnt be the case. But when you actually understand how it works you get theres no perfect solution when you get to extreme scenarios. And at least imo its better than telling people “you cant play right now come back later”

If theres only 8 people (2 4 vs 4 groups) in the whole global wait times for 4 vs 4 should the game keep looking until a brand New set of 4 players search for that Mode?

@Rebel

​What is the developers official statement on this issue? Is there any plan to solve this problem?

There isnt one and i doubt you Will get one. Would be nice if you did thou.

[Ashinferno]

@Cajocu01

How would you solve the issue? Its easy to complain and its not like you are wrong, this things Ideally shouldnt be the case

I did make a post about this. The system is wrong. Although it is true that Retold doesn’t have many players. But it has enough for fair games. Specially for low elo players there is more than enough players inorder to make it “acceptable”.

(Ignore the “out of sync” the error happened right towards the end of the match, Team 1 won very easily).

All of these games could have been more balanced just by swapping some players over from one team to another. None of the players in these games were premades.

[Cajocu01]

@Ashinferno

But it has enough for fair games

Some times sure. And on those specific occasion yea i dunno what leads it to miss match people. Even then the elo gap isnt that big, as your screenshots show

But when you get 1700s vs 900s chances are one of those groups spend quite some time waiting and it just broaden the search to whateber it can find.

@Ashinferno

All of these games could have been more balanced just by swapping some players over from one team to another. None of the players in these games were premades.

Kinda, could have been better, but for example any 2 1300s and a 80ss vs 2 800s and a 1300 isnt really becoming a fair match but i guess thats just more of a dynamic of being odd numbers per team

Btw when you say you check, you mean you talk to all the players and they all say they are solo?

[Rebel]

@Cajocu01

If they are all solo players sure. But if theres a group of players that are together it would be unfair split them by force

You are making a false assumption that everyone in a ranked team match is part of a premade. Some of these people are just random players, and that’s who I’m referring to. This is easy to deduce simply by checking a specific player’s match history.

I agree that if people are already playing in a pre-formed team, they shouldnt be split up. However, in that case, longer queue times should be the price they pay for playing together, so the system can find opponents that more accurately match their skill level. I find that is completely fair. It is unacceptable to punish random players with much lower MMR just because a group of high MMR players want to play together.

@Cajocu01

Some times sure. And on those specific occasion yea i dunno what leads it to miss match people. Even then the elo gap isnt that big, as your screenshots show

I also disagree with your point that the MMR difference in the screenshots isn’t that significant. You can see it just by looking at the ages, and if you watched a replay of such a game, the gap would be even more obvious. A 300 point difference might not mean much between a 1400 and 1700 MMR player, but between 1000 and 1300, it’s colossal. Many of these players don’t use build orders, and many are late with their second TC. The skill gap is clearly visible in the post-game graphs.

The whole problem is that the system puts the three weakest players in one team and the three strongest in the other, completely ignoring the MMR gap between the two sides. If the ranked system works this way, there is absolutely no difference between ranked, custom, or quick games. I’m even started to believe that in quick and custom games, I’d get more balanced matches than I currently do in ranked games.

Over the past week, I have dropped about 250 rating points, and I never once had an issue with the system finding players of similar MMR for my team. This suggests there are enough players at every level to form balanced team, whether it is the 901-1000 range, 801-900, and so on. However, the system almost never matched me against a weaker team; instead, it constantly pitted me against stronger opponents, resulting in a 1-to 10 win rate. Returning to the skill gap between 900 and 1200 MMR one player from the enemy team even went as far as to say he just had the easiest 1v2 fight of his life.

@Cajocu01

How would you solve the issue?

To me, it is obvious that AoM, is not LoL, and there will naturally be some queue time. But the system should prioritize groups with similar MMR. Only after a longer wait, say, 4 or 5 minutes, should it allow mixing players with different MMRs. Even then, it should be done differently, the system must aim to keep the average MMR of both teams as close as possible.

[Cajocu01]

@Rebel

You are making a false assumption that everyone in a ranked team match is part of a premade

Im not. Im saying that those cases when it happens is not the worse kind. You can get matches with weird dynamic as @Ashinferno shows, but its not as far in elo as other scenarios.

In those it for sure is missing something. Dunno if it first tries to make each team similar in skill between its players and then it matches people or what goes around thats specific situation.

@Rebel

in that case, longer queue times should be the price they pay for playing together

That is the price they pay. Have you tried?

@Rebel

so the system can find opponents that more accurately match their skill level

You are dismissing the scenario that sometimes such people dont exist at that time.

@Rebel

I’m even started to believe that in quick and custom games, I’d get more balanced matches than I currently do in ranked games.

You prob would for the level you speak off. Since peoole can see their opponents and often dodge if they dotn like the match. On custom you can pretty much set up the perfect game waiting for the ideal set of people to show up.

@Rebel

Only after a longer wait, say, 4 or 5 minutes, should it allow mixing players with different MMRs

Thats what happens. Do you think this higher elo teams spend 30 sec on queue and get 800s as opponents?

@Rebel

I also disagree with your point that the MMR difference in the screenshots isn’t that significant

Its only by comparison with the other case scenario i mentioned, not by itself. Ofc theres an elo difference

@Rebel

This suggests there are enough players at every level to form balanced team,

Not really, since you are narrowing it down to you elo, which is on most of the playerbase. You are not close to the edges to Support that claim.

@Rebel

However, the system almost never matched me against a weaker team;

So then maybe theres not as many teams available to battle against as you think there are.

@Rebel

Even then, it should be done differently

Like how?

Btw, you can see the queue in aomstats and check how many People are actually searching. You would be surprised how few it can be depending on the time you are playing at. Sometimes its really only around 10 people across all tgs theres not much to pick from for the perfect games

[Ashinferno]

@Cajocu01

Some times sure. And on those specific occasion yea i dunno what leads it to miss match people. Even then the elo gap isnt that big, as your screenshots show

One huge advantage Retold has that people from different reagions can play more easily together. networking doesn’t pose that much problem. I was shocked when I discovered that I played a match on US servers. I usually have horrible ping with US.

But again factoring in cross play, Amount of players and how hard the game is, I don’t think at any time new players will have trouble finding similarly skilled players. But higher skilled player? yes they will have a very rough time in TGs.

@Cajocu01

Btw when you say you check, you mean you talk to all the players and they all say they are solo?

I checked match histories in all of them and in 2 of them I asked every player in one of those 2 only 1 guy answered me (since the enemy team is usually very pissed about how one sided the game was).

[Cajocu01]

@Ashinferno

One huge advantage Retold has that people from different reagions can play more easily together. networking doesn’t pose that much problem. I was shocked when I discovered that I played a match on US servers. I usually have horrible ping with US.

Indeed, you can play with people from the way away and still have good ping.

@Ashinferno

But again factoring in cross play, Amount of players and how hard the game is, I don’t think at any time new players will have trouble finding similarly skilled players

It does seem its common to find similar people while one is on the elo most people are at.

@Ashinferno

I checked match histories in all of them and in 2 of them I asked every player in one of those 2 only 1 guy answered me (since the enemy team is usually very pissed about how one sided the game was).

Fair, that would be something it could fix. Dunno if the way it builds up the teams is how i mention, but if it is it can first prioritize averge elo between teams > each teams average elo. When all players are solo Q ofc.