This thread is about the mechanics/implementation and not the historicity of this revolution
I think the devs 100% nailed this rev from a gameplay perspective for those reasons:
revolting to prussia doesnt require a lot of set up, ofc there are some cards that you want to have and should plan for, but they are limited in ammount (smth like fencing school for example), but most of the lategame cards you need are included in the prussian/german confed decks…so its relatively easy to spontaneously revolt to prussia, when pressured in age 4.
1.5) but if you want to setup your revolution with cav upgrade shipments you are rewarded with some crazy ulans (and hopefully they’ll fix the bugg, that lithuanian dragoons arent affected)
with the prussian rev you dont struggle to get further shipments, because of the academy tech giving you extra xp for everything and shipments like “frankfurt national assembly” or “spandau arms factory” giving you access to techs that otherwise would be shipments themselves.
it strikes a good ballance between a military rev and an alternative to age 5. You can use it to defend yourself, but you are not completely all-in afterwards.
3.5) Revolting to the german confederation doesnt lock you out of any of the prussian shipments. So you either need the military powerspike and revolt to prussia asap or you pay (3000+1848+1866) 6714 ressources for a true age 5 alternative that gives you a twist on the regular germany gameplay without losing all of your economy first.
I hope future revs will be inspired by this design and older ones supplemented accordingly. My main issue with other revs (peru for example) is, there are so many cards to send in preparation for and after the revolt, and if you dont send them, you are either missing out on power or on flavor. (Ofc crazy all-in revs shouldnt be bombared with tons of free, extra shipments)
Nothing you said points to it being well designed. You just like it because it’s strong.
That’s because very little thought was put into integrating it with the existing civ. They just make any change they want without regard to what they’re making changes to. Of course you don’t need a lot of setup when it does a complete 180 and goes from a civ with 4 cards to upgrade Doppelsoldners to a civ without any melee infantry.
Didn’t they also get rid of the xp penalty after revolting?
So if German Confederation has everything Prussia has, what need is there to have a 2 stage revolt? Prussia is just a redundant speed bump in this case.
as explained before:
prussia is for the military powerspike, you pay 3000 res
german confederation is for the age 5 alternative costing >6000res. Revolts are researched faster, so doing 2 revs back to back should be arround the same as going imp.
Prussia would be a speed bump, if it would require u to stay prussia and send cards first. Revolutionary france is a speed bump for example.
yes, but thats for all revolutions now iirc and not a specific prussia/german confed design. Ive thought about including it, but the idea behind this thread is what we can learn from the prussia rev for future revs/reworks… so yeah… its already implemented its a great thing non the less.
that would have never been a thing in a prussia/german confed revolt anyways, doppelsöldner is not really smth you want in your 18th/19th century rev. U could make a similar argument about argentinia, hungary and colombia, nobody revolts to them to train pikes or dopps if we are honest. And even if u invested 1-2 cards before deciding to go prussia, thas a) your own fault if u are so obsessed with dopps xD… go livonia age 3 if u really want to play melee inf b) not a huge loss, since u get enough shipments to compensate
i think going regular age 5 is still the stronger option, i like that the rev has versatility and is not trapped in either the “All-in, i need to win in 5 mins or im dead”-camp or the “its all fluff and flavor/its all economy, but my military is complete shit”-camp. From the things ive seen so far, its well rounded and not overpowered at all
Why does there need to be an extra step? German Confederation could be have the exact same effects as a direct revolution.
How so? Revolutionary France has all the same cards as Napoleonic France. Germany could be the exact same.
This is the actual reason you don’t struggle to get shipments. It’s not some great design unique to Prussia.
But none of those remove dopps. And there’s no reason Prussia or the German Confederation should need to either other than the devs fetishizing the era of Napoleonic warfare
As someone who bitched about Prussian inclusion a lot I’m naturally inclined to like the Prussian revolt. It could have been just a replace effect like they did with the Meiji restauration, and perhaps it would have fitted better. But they went the extra mile with extra cards and techs.
I’m just bummed out that they added that March revolution second stage to it. It’s not even a revolt, it doesnt give an actual march revolt deck it just adds a mere 5 new cards, but only 2 of them are actually new cards. And you need a failed citizens revolt to acces Imperial troops as the nation that is known for its military? With a card representing the Carlsbad decrees that happened 30 years before it, were anti-revolutionary in nature and were dismanteld by said revolt even. The revolt failed in part due to lack of military and peasantry support, guess what you primarily get here? The old card or the new big button do enough to represent the march revolution, the full deck couldve just been as easily be the standard Prussian deck. Perhaps a card or tech somewhere for that settler replace effect, which I feel is the main reason the revolt is even there.
By the way, does anyone know why the “Armed Citizenship” card appears in the Confederation of Germany metropolis? I ask because when you trigger a revolution with it, the citizens and the “March Revolutionaries” ability are already active by default.
So, my question is: is this a bug that needs fixing, or should the card simply be removed from the deck?
double checked it, i’ve misremebered the french revolution, for some reason i thought u lose access to “reign of robespierre” for example. Still, the french revolution is slower since its age 5 is locked behind a shipment… so its more of a speedbumb and i dont remember you complaining about that.
having german confederation after prussia is more consistent with other revolutions, would be strange to suddenly have a prussia rev in age 4 with 3000res cost and a >6000res german march revolution. In aoe3 we have way stranger things than transforming settlers into musk into settlers.
A prussia rev and a march revolution would have a lot of overlap and having both parallel would be a bit redundant, but i want to keep this topic about the mechanics and not the historicity, so i wont go deeper into that.
ehm, actually… i think i remember if i have to pay an extra shipment to access factories or not.
Ofc this helps, but we have 2 different mechanics unique to this rev, that give u direct impact. Why dont u want other revs to profit from similar mechanics?
there is no reason for prussia to have dopps. Its clear from statements like these, that you’re still salty they didnt include your proposed prusso-teutonicorder hybrid, that would have had teutonic knights fighting alongside 18th century line infantry. They are not fetishizing the napoleonic era, theyve added the livonian order. Im glad they’ve split those two very distinctive eras
Its the same card, revolting adds an extra effect to it. So if you already send it when revolting the big button becomes active. They just seem to not have added the effect that stops you from sending it again.
yeah, that stuff is stupid. Tbh i think the “german confederation” is just imperial germany in a republican costume, and only a flagswap mod away. Given the rise of a (ultra-)nationalist party in germany and movements like the Reichsbürger, that are heavily using the black-white-red imperial german flag, i can totaly understand why developers shy away from portraying this difficult and propagandized part of the past and compromize somewhere in the middle… and before someone starts to scream about historical accuracy, aoe3 is full of stupid anachronistic stuff and completely flipped timelines… so whatever
Yes, and having them in series is redundant too. I’m saying get rid of Prussia full stop, not shift Confederates to a parallel revolution. Prussia offers nothing other than a flag change.
I think you’re misunderstanding what I’m saying, I don’t want Prussia to have dopps. I don’t want Prussia at all. Just have a straight revolt to German Confederation and leave dopps alone like every other revolution.
I actually think the Livonian revolution is fantastic. That rev is top tier work from the devs. If Prussia were ever a standalone civ it should have some Teutonic references in the early ages which is why I had mentioned Teutonic Knights for them in the past. But now that there’s a Livonian revolution that gives a full on Teutonic option a hypothetical Prussian civ would be fine with just a shipment of those archaic units instead of being in their standard roster.
nice to agree. I’ve critcized it in the beta, but after playing a bit more, i appreciate it more and more
what can we learn from the livonian rev? do u think age 3 revs are a good thing in general or should it stay very limited?
For starters they should broaden what civs have access to the current ones. Danes should have access to Livonia and other revs. And Cossacks should have been designed to work for Russia too.
As for more of them, Bohemia is all that really comes to mind. But Germany being so jank kinda works against that one because it should obviously revolve around War Wagons but nearly every German update is about getting rid of them.
Some suggested irland as an age 3 rev, just saying this for completion sake, i have no opinion on that.
Technically one could argue for an age 3 swiss revolt, but that would be another german revolt and we dont need germany to be mexico 2.0
I really like that livonia spawns burghermilita instead of transforming its settlers. I hope future revolutions keep experimenting with the formula and that they are ballanced arround keeping atleast some of the economy going. (Also a big plus for the cossacks and to some extend the german confederation imo)
its a great thing non the less.
