PUP AI discussion

Does anyone have the numbers on how many players play PvP against how many play vs AI?

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that data for aoe4 remains a mystery, however, an average for basically all big remaining RTS is following: 17 to 23% PVP multiplayer, everyone else in PVE, the % of PVP players never goes above 23%, but it is below 10% even in some games, for example COH2 is about 13% in PVP
regardless of being in low twenties or lower, fact of the matter is relic is making a massive mistake by catering solely to PVP even with typically non-PVP portions of the game

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Ah, thank you for the statistics. Just goes to show how bad a move this AI change was.

I have a strong suspicion that this is the result of the devs being forced to cater to the pro players in their advisory council, who have no clue what the majority PvE playerbase wants in an AI.

to be fair to the devs its not known if the competitive push came as a result of selection bias (moment of truth, none of council members was really skirmish vs AI kind of player, and even if they were, if things were voted on, 1 or 2 representing this aspect would be outvoted by the rest of council, which pretty much only played competitively), or developers own call before feedback started coming back
but that was in development, big question is, why is this direction still being pushed after it already backfired? while i don’t expect the release day peak to be sustainable, its also not normal to drop as much and as fast as aoe4 did, and imo, no matter how many times the game goes on sale, until they shift focus completely, the player count won’t go up by much, if at all

now, i’d like to share a comment i made a while back on incog’s channel:
I’ll be real, aoe4 is the polar opposite of what its predecessors are, those put 0 attention to esports, and were designed for campaign and skirmish vs AI as well as custom scenarios and mods, with ingame editors that were intuitive and easy to use, esports just happened over time, aoe4 meawhile puts all attention into 1v1 ranked and esports, with campaign being a straight up downgrade to ogs to put it mildly, AI being complete dumpster and the editor missing at launch, while the one that was added is not ingame, its the hardest one to use i ever tried (and i tried starcraft editors, those are childs play in comparison), limited as hell still, mods are hard to do, they constantly break due to updates, maps are tough to make compared to past, generated and crafted scenarios, and then they also try to force an esport in, while also failing to handle controls properly, no wonder its struggling to gain players
bit of a fiery rant but the point stands
STOP Catering to a MINORITY of Players! | AoE4 (Reaction Video to GGG) - YouTube
link to the vid for anyone interested in this, won’t go further on this post


I think they do need to cater much more to PvE players. We need more single player content and coop content. I think it was a mistake to launch without something akin to SC2’s coop mode. Things like that keep people engaged for years.

But they did not make this AI change for the PvP players. The PvP players are playing people, they will hardly bother with this AI anyway. They did it because players have been asking for a harder AI since the game came out.

in fairness, aoe4 doesn’t have a dedicated co-op mode yet, big miss

I don’t know of You noted it, but in My Game, mongols and ottomans AI don’t works, mongol don’t unpack his TC and ottomans don’t avance to castle Age. I don’t know if it is a bug from My mod or its a Game bug, so i read You if we got the same problem.

AI mod?
since we can’t change the script itself its probably a game bug

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I’ve seen this occur with Mongols. AI won’t unpack TC. I concur that mods don’t change the AI script, but this has only occurred to me when playing with a mod.


i watched Beasty’s games vs Cheater AI… you’re right, he makes it look pretty easy, but that kind of super early rush is 1) very hard to pull off, let alone making it leave a mark that’s worth doing it 2)whenever i do that, my level of APM and micro being lightyears behind Beasty’s (probably like most people!!) makes it so my econ just stagnates to a point where i don’t think i’m actually gaining anything from rushing the enemy.

The only way i’ve found to play vs hardest now is to play 3v2… so for example me + another human (or Hardest AI) + 1 Hardest AI vs 2 hardest AI.

feels like cheating, but then again, so would be playing a 1v1 and giving myself a x2 resource gather rate haha

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No, it’s a pop and resources mod, nothing to do with AI. Also noted that malians don’t advance to imperial too. Rest of the civs works well.

again, game bug as ai doesn’t know how to use additional pop space and resources
or any non french or english civ

first of all i thought:
watching a guy talking about a video, in which a guy talking about video games seems really weird. but after making fun of this video-ception i have to say:

good thoughts and alot of truth in it but also some bs:

aoe3 is more clunky than iron harvest and aoe4. i played all games, and the worst movement of troops is aoe3. they feel like being on a rubberband. but thats only some some fact that match for me here.

i’ll respectfully disagree, but i understand perfectly well snare isn’t a fan favourite, thats the only clunkiness i ever saw happening, thing with aoe4 tho is, the clunkiness is on every single clickable action, thats not the case in 3 from my observations, yes aoe4 doesn’t have snaring, but counting UI and command delays, as well as the horrific build menu layout (for a hotkey user, also that menu isn’t the only offender, just the most outstanding one), its just not a fair comparison anymore, this is where aoe3 still has the aoe2 smoothness, besides the snare, the speed ups and slowdowns of unit movement have a clear logic behind them, as that game’s micro uses that quite heavily, there is some clunkiness tho, both in 3 and 4, due to use of stacked unit portraits (icons for 4) instead of aoe2 like individual unit portraits, as you lose that individual unit granular control, although aoe3 does once again have some compensation with ctrl-double click function (selects unit based on type and state)
i still think people should give aoe3 more extensive look instead of simply judging the surface, dropping this sort of criticism on aoe2 would definitely upset a lot of people, from my experience, its still a valid point btw, but that on its own imo doesn’t make aoe4 better

This new Hardest AI is really dumb if a player manages to get past feudal age.

Just finished playing a custom PvE 2 vs 2 on the live version, and my partner dropped out without ageing up. So essentially it was 1 vs 2 hardest AI. And once I held on and reached Castle, both AI’s just seemed to give up. They took all 3 sacred sites, I took them back, and they just hung back at their base. Their vills weren’t even doing anything, just hanging around like zombies.

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