Pup changes are a disaster for HRE

Currently HRE has a positive winrate against only three civs. 2 of these, abba and english is due to the burgrave rush.

The pup changes give abba a faster castle age up than hre

They give english potentially a 4x crosbow production upon age up. A crossbow burgrave if you will.

In diamond and above hre already has an abysmal 38% winrate against mali, 40% against mongols and 43% aganst french. Now hre is set to lose 2 of its three only good matchups.

On top of this the devs nerfed prelate healing, reducing one of hre’s only counters to mongol tower rush. Expect the winrate against mongols to decline even further.

I havnt played hre much this season due to how weak they are against certain civs and im sad i wont get to play them for months to come.


Did you miss the large buff HRE just got? It was a bug fix to charge damage on their infantry. They were not getting their extra damage from their unique techs when charging.

Also Meinwerk got buffed. They have very strong knights now with it.


HRE destroys Delhi so much you even forgot to mention them.

Not at a high level. Delhi wins more often

Hre will have the lowest win rate for sure. France will have a much better win rate against them. English was already a tuff match up long games but they are stonger early now.

Nothing has really changed. HRE will keep using the 3 main landmarks

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You are also in another topic say France is worse. Maybe this update is bad for you not game.


I play several civs. I just enjoy france and hre and am sad they wont be viable.

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Yes, it does seem like that HRE will be in a very tough spot with the new patch, as they have barely gotten anything to improve their viability, while a lot of other civs have. They peak in castle and fall short the longer the game goes. And vs Abba and English they might not even peak in castle anymore.

And if you age up with Aachen, you also effectively lose one imperial tech (riveted chainmail). I really like the new Meinwerk techs, but I feel like they won’t come in handy due to all the buffs for other civs and the rather weak and slow multi tc play for HRE. Burgrave is such a lame landmark that I really do not like, because it makes you all-in with little to no continuation ability. And with the nerf to relics, Regnitz has lost a lot of power esp. in regards of lategame scaling. On top of that, all the other civs have become more potent in denying relics and fetching them themselves.

We also should not act like their inspiration eco bonus is applied to all workers at all times. It is so very much not, making the HRE eco a hard to balance and very susceptible issue. While all other civs get their eco boni to apply to all workers at all times, HRE does not have this kind of luxury. And when you go Meinwerk to profit from the new techs, your eco will be even worse because of how inspiration works.

There should probably really be some kind of mechanic that allows prelates to inspire from within towers or smth like that. Not in the manner that it makes Aachen useless, but in the manner of having an easier way of applying the bonus without having to sprinkle prelates everywhere that can easily be sniped.