PUP - March 2024 [Patch notes]

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
83

Ahh, this is a beautiful explanation and visual. Thank you! I see now how that PUP wording works, but also causes confusion. (This is funny timing, considering the Campaign/Scenario wording issue for the upcoming DLC :slight_smile: )

If I understand correctly, if a Treb (or other siege weapon) launches a boulder, then the area of impact receiving 100% damage is equal to the pixel diameter of the boulder (rather than just a pinpoint), and there will still be splash damage falloff outside of that diameter. And if the impact is a military unit (or similar, or even trees), then they obviously get 100% of that damage.

Sounds great! Although it still seems siege will be doing more damage quicker than before (feels like an attack buff, despite it also fixing a bug). Thankfully, not as bad as I feared.

One question, though… Mangonels sometimes (or always?) launch multiple boulders and land in a spread-out fashion. Will this change take each individual boulder into account, I wonder? So, wherever each of the multiple rocks land, they each cause 100% damage within each diameter, and each have their own falloff radius?

Or is the group of boulders treated as one big diameter circle (equal in size to however far the boulders spread out) that causes 100% damage within its entire diameter and has one falloff radius relative to the boulder spread amount?

Pretty much splitting hairs at the moment, I know, but some players might like to know, as the PUP wording makes it seem like the diameter of each boulder will be what causes 100% damage – and the pockets of air between them will receive less than 100% damage. I’d prefer it this way, but fear that it will be just one big circle.

Spirit of the Law is truly amazing. I haven’t watched a lot of his stuff, but the handful of things I have I’m blown away by the time spent reviewing and showing the fine details of things

84

Neither. Each rock has it’s own damage amount and it’s own characteristics as a projectile.

Extra rocks from Mangonels deal one damage each, the main rock deals the full damage if it connects, the secondary rocks deal one damage if they connect.

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85

Oh yeah. I’ve really been trying to put that in that past. I’m not over it, I’m just trying to get into the acceptance state of grief lol.

Yeah, probably. You can probably devise a test that will show more damage is being outputted. I’d…guestimate that is in the order of about 1% buff…but that’s just a guestimate. I really don’t think it’ll be noticeable but we’ll see.

As far as I know projectile spread is another attribute that can be given to a unit. When the dromon rework was done, that was something they adjusted, increasing the spread so the projectiles spread away from each other more. So I believe 100% of the time you should see that spread out behavior. I assume it’s just an angle or something like that, so the closer the target is the less spread, the further the more spread, but that ratio of spread should always be there and should remain constant.

Yes so how mangonel projectiles work is that they have one primary projectile and a certain number of cosmetic projectiles, depending on if you have mangonel, onager, SO. the primary projectile, carries the advertised damage. The “cosmetic” projectiles carry only 1 melee atk.

So presumably then, anything within the projectile radius of a costmetic projectile, would receive the full dmg.

Consequently I think your first image, with little circles best describes this projectile radius question.

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86

Does anyone know if this works for fishing ships with gurjaras docks?

87

I still want to know what this is. I never got a response if this was a typo or what on steam.

edit: https://cdn.ageofempires.com/aoe/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/SiegeGarrisonSpread_trim.gif

ah, this finally answers it.

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88

Their food bonus should have been reverted. And then lose fire ship line so that they won’t be auto choice in almost all maps.

89

I didn’t know that. Does that mean the old limited time scenarios can be moved to the custom scenarios folder and played from there?

True. In case any members of the balance team read these threads, here’s why I think that shouldn’t happen: My main objection is that resource penalties are inelegant and unsatisfying – it’s too obvious that they are balance adjustments that don’t illustrate anything historical or thematic about the civ. Also, I think Georgians should be accessible to players with lower skill levels – those players tend to favour defensive and cavalry play, which Georgians specialise in, but struggle with non-standard starts. Finally, I think the starting mule cart should primarily be an eco bonus rather than a scouting bonus, and a resource penalty undermines that.

90

Indeed. I think the oldest scenario that’s hidden in the game files is the E3 one from 2019

Edit: Actually, I uploaded Barbarossa Brawl a while ago. I just fixed the folder strucutre, so the mod is finally playable again → Mods Single - Age of Empires - World's Edge Studio

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91

Personally I believe a “Defensive Civ” should start slow. The resource penalty used to do that. But now a fast pacing “Defensive Civ” is really not my taste.

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92

A slow-paced defensive civ is a competitively bad civ. Any slow-paced civ is competitively bad, except on closed maps like Arena.

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93

Yeah, you’re probably right. I think the macro nerfs and buffs (for defenses and offenses, respectively) that have already come to the game far outweigh any micro % differences this PUPpy will bring :sweat_smile:

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94

:joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy:

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95

:smile:     

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96

Even on arena sometimes…in current meta, Simply lacking a eco boost, as early as possible, is a big problem compensated only by some big army bonus like byzantines, that have Amazing defensive bonuses and have a small eco discount in free tawn Watch

97

Byzantines is a defensive civ, as it lacks a strong power unit thourough the game (no bonus on arbalesters). Their bonus are geared toward defense: cheap counter unit (bad for offense), better building HP and LoS. They have no eco bonus to be aggressive (except cheap imperial xoming late into the game).

Still they are by no mean competitively bad.

For me a “defensive civ” is a civ whose go to strategy is to be on the defensive instead of hard rushing ASAP. Which means typically lacking a strong eco bonus but having a good late game… Hence “starting slow”.

Currently only 3 civs are officially classifiied as “defensive”:

  • Byzantines: cheap trash, free town watch/patrol and builsing hp
  • Koreans: cheap skirms/pike, free archer armor upgrades
  • Armenians: pike line availabke earlier + infantry LoS + mule cart

So they all get “compensation”. Armenians get less compensation but better regular eco bonus. It is easy to design more “defensive” civs with weak early eco but good defensive “compensation” (villagers sheltering in buildings, bonus toward skirms/pikes/camels, bonus building hp/los, cheaper walling, TC range bonus, mule carts, cheaper repairing, higher garnisoning cap,…)

And in my book “lacking an eco boost” compensated by “amazing defensive bonus” is the definition of a “defensive civ”.

98

What? They’re Infantry and Naval, not defensive.

99

You mean Georgians. They’re actually billed as a defensive civ.

100

Free mule cart is a huge eco bonus IMO

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101

100 free resources and second scout at start of the game. Not the easiest bonus to use, but at high levels it’s gotta be pretty good.

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102

Byz is one of the civ don’t get powercrept. But I think skirm is enough to harass villagers and force walling.

Mayans and Incas can be good defensive civ but they aren’t slow-paced. Mediterranean civs are design as slow-paced if you include Old Portuguese. But several changes like portuguese (naval civ) wood bonus and Incas buff are not that reasonable