I’m curious what made the Gurjaras so unusable now. The changes don’t seem to be that extensive.
gurjaras were losing ground because of the addition of chicken, they were fine before that
Why are people these days so eager to spam wrong narratives. Maybe devs sometimes overnerf stuff. But claiming this for stuff where we provenly have other effects actually just reveals the people who try to spread these wrong narratives.
It’s a very long list of nerfs. Not just to them, but their UUs.
None of these nerfs have been rescinded (unlike Hindustanis), and the meta has only become worse for them over time.
I looked, and they all individually seemed rather minor. Is there one big one that made them unviable, or is it just the many small nerfs that added up?
Many that added up. Then add two meta changes they can’t handle and it leads to where they are now.
Sorry if I seem stupid or ignorant, but what were the meta changes?
Triple nerfs tend to be quite impactful. Over time, it was bonus damage reduction, shrivamshas nerfed into the ground (over multiple patches), food generation overhaul (generally a nerf), chakrams became focused against infantry, and Kashatriyas (UT that reduced food costs) had its price raised. After all of that, they were left in a pretty poor state. They have since received a boost to their starting forage bushes and camel scouts, but that mainly makes their start easier (and camel scouts don’t address their weakness to MAAs - which is fine imo).
I think a cost decrease (even just 5 gold, which would still leave it above its original price) for Shrivamshas would really help the civ (because the units seems a bit lackluster at this point). They would still be weak to MAAs, which are much stronger now than they were when Gurjaras were released, but the infantry buffs over the years have not been kind to Gurjaras.
And now champis are getting a similar level of nerfing all at once (at least its still the PUP so there’s at least the possibility of it changing, but I wouldn’t bet on that).
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I think the biggest point is that it’s too many different nerfs at once.
We won’t know what part of that actually improved champis gameplay for and against and what didn’t.
It’s always better to focus on one aspect at a time even if it then requires several patches - but 3 patches in a row is better than 10 and still having no idea how to fix it.
Again, the time grujaras grounded were when chickens were added. You can see it in the stats. Before that they were perfectyl fine actually THANKS to the great patching of devs.
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Exactly. Game balance should be regarded as a science experiment; test one variable at a time and see what happens rather than making multiple changes simultaneously.
- Men-at-arms line buffed a lot (Gujaras struggle with this unit line until they can make a castle)
- Chickens. Gujaras have an awkward food start, which was lessoned by deer-luring. Can’t do that with them chickens.
Alright, no need to praise them that hard. They are not in the room with you.
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Well if someone isn’t there this doesn’t mean you have to badmouth over them.
Ofc devs make mistakes. But it’s important for the progress of the game NOT to blame them for something they didn’t eveb do.
Before the addition of Chickens Devs did a great work balancing Gurjaras which wasn’t easy to achieve.
Should they have added chicken? Imo that wasn’t really necessary. But don’t blame devs nerfs for the effect of chickens on Gurjaras. The nerfs were done for a long time before the chicken effect came into play.
By “Bosphoru,” I mean the “style of play.” My criticism is directed at the style of play, not personal.
I’m not fully blaming the devs for the state Gurjaras are in, also the people that wouldn’t stop complaining about them, even when they were fine.
As a person who actually really likes Gurjaras, the Shrivamsha Rider whack design really tarnished one of the best civs the devs have designed
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I wonder why the Champi is addressed so “quick” and direct while the Fire Lancer and the 3K civs in general is taking for ever (or not happen at all). I wonder if the pro-players or the actual tournament has anything to do with this course.
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I’m not on Discord, but my impression is that the pros have all made themselves heard, loudly and quickly.
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Yeah, Blackwood Archers were borderline as it was. Now with the refund nerf and the loss of damage they’ll be way outclassed by regular crossbows. Blackwood Archers were, in my opinion, the only viable castle UU from any of the DLC civs, but now? Now they’ll fit right in to the units I ignore.
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The Mapuche UU needs to scale from some sort of armor techs
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Are you kidding? Konas are absolutely insane, especially when massed! I will agree that Guecha Warriors are pretty irrelevant; Temple Guards are the real Muisca UU.
It’s “Phosphoru”
Also, I think we should start calling the strategy-group the “Open Map Ultra-Fast Castle”, or OMUFC or OMUC for short.