Ok now I feel redeemed 
Also your suggestions all seem reasonable. I think they are good ideas to tweak the original concept with. 
In some things I may have said something that I didnāt necessarily need to. But here are my arguments for the statements I stated in the previous comment.
- Free Murder Holes is not a weak bonus. It requires a university and 100 stone (which is not cheap considering the stone is the most scarce resource in the game) and about 300 wood(?). It gives you an immediate edge to your towers and castles and it compliments Teutonic developed Fortification bonuses. When you are doing a tower rush or simply using Fortificationsā strength for various reasons I wouldnāt pick a better bonus. Sometimes not having Murder Holes can cost you the game. Plus you even get Herbal Medicine for free which is the only monastery tech I personally research besides Fervor for faster collection of relics.
- I didnāt have to mention the Portuguese but that bonus could be nerfed to about 20% max just to give at least some use to the Saracen UT and be greater than the Portuguese bonus since itās only about monks. If you have 50% less on Monks it basically does the same thing like Saracen UT just it is better in any way which makes the Saracen UT useless.
- If you instantly convert villagers, 5 monks can cause a lot of havoc just buy converting 3-4 vills who can also build buildings, gather goods and repair siege. Now it depends of the time - if it takes from 2-4 seconds it would be okay but not instantly. So maybe, looking from the other perspective, it can even be under powered as some players do not use monks for converting vills or do not use monks at all except to pick up relics and defend against knights, so it makes it too situational. Besides, paying for that UT that is too situational is imo not worth it in most cases especially in Imperial Age.
- If Monks cost food, imagine having 30 halbs in front and monks in the back. Halbs can protect against Light cav and monks can convert everything in the back. Now we would probably be thinking about 10-15 monks and counting as you could be spamming them like Hussars. And not to mention the other trash and non trash units that you can train to protect monks while the opponent would be forced to research Faith or Heresy or in the worst case both which are the most expensive non-unique techs. Not to mention the raids. If that could pass, you would need to balance the hell out of monastery by not giving them Redemption or Block Printing or monks costing 200 food or more instead of 100 gold.
- Relic bonus could pass if passive gold income isnāt removed.
And there are too many bonuses for monks while most people statistically donāt like playing monks that much so devs focus more on eco and military.
I didnāt say that anything is bad I only said what could be changed. I also thought of an idea for a civ that is not implemented in the game and I did some changes a couple of times myself. These bonuses could be easily be altered and then made more balanced.
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Well who would have predicted this. A new expansion and 2 new civs is in the making!
And not be tooting my own horn or anything, but some of the ideas in it for units seems to be straight out the original post in this thread (not that these ideas were in and of themselves anything new as there are many other games wit similar things in them but still hard not to notice.) Specifically, there is a military unit that builds buildings, a cavalry unit that āchargesā (yet to be seen how this will be done in practice.) and a late imperial Flemish Pikeman unit which sounds kinda like my Swiss Pikeman suggestion.
Would have been cool to see more civs and maybe new architecture but this is exciting nonetheless.
5 Likes
Again, major empires missing from the game:
Ghurids (afghans)
Tibetans
Jurchen
Chola (Dravidians)
Bengali
Kanem
And an assortment of important civs/kingdoms:
Romanians, Serbs, Georgians, Bohemians/Wends, Armenians
Congo, Swahili
Thai
Mapuche
2 Likes
Bengali Sultanate was from the 15th to 16th centuries, not very Medieval.
Tamils (a bit umbrella, but covers mores Dravidian kingdoms) and Odyias would fit much more in the time frame.
I mean the Pala empire. Bengali is the nation.
I just want to see the Tripartite struggle civs. i.e. Hindu vs Bengali vs Dravidians.
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Bengali Sultanate was from the 14th century where they fought versus the Delhi Sultanate, Assam and Orissa. The precedessor, the Palas had a really big Empire fighting vs the Tibetans
Now we know why no modding support for adding civis.
Celts slaves teutons sarecens chineese and indians are umbrella civis which can be broken down to make scenarios better.
Considering how crazy and OP some of these new civ bonuses sound on paper, I am hopeful again for my idea of monks only costing food lol
Why would anyone pay for one civi? Even 2 is not enough to pay money.
It would be interesting to see how this works in a mod. I have the impression that it would lead to a lot of frustration, and rants against ugly tactics (turtling, monks caged behind walls, extreme healing of death-balls).
This can also be done now, but it has severe consequences if you lose the monks. In Imperial Age, spamming monks non-stop would lead to exploits. Also, the player controlling the monks could also get annoyed with himself (or the game) by not being able to manage 5+ conversions.
But it can be balanced I am sure. Much crazier ideas have been balanced. Remember its a unique tech that I propose (read the original post), so the initial cost could be high, also the civ in question (Bohemians) could miss out on other monastery techs to compensate, such as Sanctity and Fervor. Also maybe they cost food, but the food cost is more than the usual Monk gold cost. Maybe its 150 food instead of 100 gold. That is actually pretty expensive. So yea I dont think itāll be something OP, itāll be something unique and different though.
congratulations the devs are using your idea
2 Likes
lol well I am sure I wasnāt the first to come up with this idea, and the devs probably donāt even know about this thread 
Currently we have 2 civis each speaking german french italian mongol and uzbeck so who might fit this way going forward? unless the new civis have new voice sets which is unlikely.
Shouldnāt Burgundians speak Flemish???
I hope they will.
Would be cool to have some Flemish speach in AoE2.
For new civs we definetly only need
Alans,
Albanians,
Aragonese,
Armenians,
Avars,
Bohemians,
Bosnians,
Bavarians,
Burgundians, (Oops! Already on CIVILIZATION tier!),
Bulgarians, (Oops! Already on CIVILIZATION tier!),
Catalans,
Cornish,
Corsicans,
Croatians,
Cypriots, (only the Greek ones though)
Czechs,
Danes,
Dutch,
Estonians,
Finns,
Flanders, (devsā originally planned NEW CIVILIZATION!)
Frisians,
Galicians,
Habsburgs, (devsā originally planned CIVILIZATION for AoK!)
Irish,
Latvians,
Normans,
Normandians,
Novgorods,
Occitaines,
Ostrogoths,
Picts,
Poles,
Portuguese (Oops! Already on CIVILIZATION tier!),
Prussians,
Ruthenians,
Sardinians,
Saxons,
Scots,
Sicilians (Oops! Already on CIVILIZATION tier!),
Serbians,
Swabians,
Swiss,
Tuscans,
Valencians,
Vandals,
Venetians,
Vlachs,
Welsh,
AND
Wends.
and almost all the relevant cultures of the world will be covered.
donāt you guys agree?
EDIT: Forgot to pay the absolutely necessary respect to the civilizations: The Galicians, The Welsh, The Cornish and The Aragonese.
EDIT 2: (response to Cheshire)
Georgians not european? Ok, letās remove. We remove those.
inb4: "These geme med bai a Western Company in de Western World
inb4: Ban
3 Likes
Georgians are culturally independent from any European civs that is in the game. They are close to Armenians who didnāt live in Europe.
EDIT: add Latvians, Estonians, Saxons and Ostrogoths too 11
3 Likes