Hi. I have some questions about China which have arisen while facing them in battle:
I had son of Osairis, and he became frozen and could not move for quite a long period of time, while units just attacked him and killed him since he couldn’t move. What power caused this, was it the Hundun? (which should not be able to affect hero units such as Osairis) it is obviously stronger than frost which imobilizes but adds 99% armor, this power just freezes and adds no armor. Seems like an unfair and cheap way to negate an age 4 god power without needing to use a god power yourself.
Yinglong the dragon looks really cool, however he destroyed about 38 slingers in a few seconds and then retreated to heal up. He is faster than slingers and can fly away easily. I was unable to kill him the entire game (as Egypt) because he can just run away when he gets injured and heal up. Nidhogg cannot be healed for game balance reasons, why is Yinglong stronger, faster and able to heal and also provide economic benefit via rain?
Why are the age 4 hero units almost strong as son of Osairis, yet they are just heros which can be retrained and also healed? I thought the cool thing about Greeks were their unique, strong heros? For example Bellepron is a unique hero that only Zeus gets, and is extra strong because that is Zeus’s specialty. Why does China get all the unique cool stuff from other civs? (Osairis from Egypt, Nidhogg from Norse, super strong heroes from greek, super villagers from Atlanteans). I’m disappointed that they just ripped off stuff from all the other civs which should have remained unique and gave it all to China.
By the way, another game I made only slingers and he made only fire archers and I lost so I don’t know how to counter them. The price of almost only wood doesn’t seem reasonable compared to all other non myth units in the game.
Nope, it’s NüWas unique hero unit that spawns a golden pagoda that traps multiple units (including heroes and flying units).
Wouldn’t it be nice if Egyptians had a easy to mass ranged unit with bonus damage against myth units.
The problem is if you make very generic things a civilisation trait like “strong heroes” it becomes impossible to keep designing new civilisations without some repetition.
Also their super villagers are very different from Atlantean villagers because they are much more expensive compared to their performance and they even cost Favour unlike any other villager unit in the game.
They are 2x as fast for Wood and Gold (ignoring that they have to drop off) and equal for Food. But they cost 50% more (ignoring favour) have 50% higher population.
The favour cost is what holds them back the most 17 favour is a lot. A Citizen Hero only cost 2 favour!
But on the other hand the Chinese villagers are the worst in the game.
That doesn’t seem right. Unless they had like a 2 to 1 numbers advantage Slingers should very well counter Fire Archers.
They have the same HP, similar costs (Fire Archers being more Gold heavy) while the Slinger does 9 DPM vs. the Fire Archers 5 DPM while the Slinger also has more pierce armour.
Also Camel Riders do bonus damage vs. Archers since last patch.
China is currently rather weak in the early game (except some cheeses) but completely busted in late game. This is hardly unexpected, they need to sell the DLC after all, so they are rolling with OP civs.
I think there should be a readjustment patch where China gets a little help in the early game while making their late game, particularly the heroes and their dragons a little weaker. I do agree that Soo should be significantly stronger than the retrainable china heroes.
OTOH Eggy does need a lot of help in PvP, they feel luckluster atm. Only Ra seems to be doing decent. Isis and Set are useless.
Chinese heroes are strong but few. and that stun has been nerfed to two seconds, you should consider focus them down, only 2 are allowed, and they are extra glowy. If your enemy can focus your SoO, you can focus them down with axemen too.
Yinglong is powerful but it is attached to a very bad minor god, almost no higher elo player picks Huangdi because Chinese human soldiers aren’t very good. They are much much weaker than Egyptian counter units.
No they are not as strong as SoO, not even close. They just each has some specialty cd. Like any other civilization, it is crucial to manuelly focus down heroes with your fodders.
Slingers are not very great in current meta unless you go Ptah. It’s more cost effective to go camel. Fire archers are unlikely to beat slingers unless you forget to upgrade them. Are you sure you didn’t overlook some wuzhu javelins?
There wasnt the golden pagoda. Son of Osairis was just frozen in place unable to move or attack at all while the enemy killed him. I attached the game here. ChinafreezesOsairis.mythrec (7.2 MB)
As I said, the dragon would just fly away and my priests couldnt catch him. Then he just flies somewhere else and flies away and heals when the priests show up. Nidhogg can’t be healed, doesnt give an eco bonus, seems slower.
The Nidhogg is honestly pretty weak but it’s available to a strong Major God.
The speed is almost the same and the Nidhogg has more HP but overall Yinglong is certainly the better unit for the same cost (also same recast cost). They probably both need to be adjusted.
You got a point! Those flying units from Chinese are awuful.
The creative capacity of our generation simply absorbs what previous generations have done well. The proof of this is Retold itself. I strongly agree with all your points so far.
AOM was never a game developed to have flying units. I don’t know what kind of craziness it was to add so many for the Chinese. At least, then, they should add ranged attacks to all units, including hoplites, so they throw stones or spears. Let the hersirs throw axes like the axemen. It doesn’t matter, but something needs to be done.
Villagers should also be able to use their bows against these types of units. All these additions of flying units are going to end up altering the essence of the game. Age of Mythology is a game of battles on land and sea, not in the air. The Greeks, for example, only have the Pegasus as a flying unit. Even the Egyptians only have one flying unit. Why add such strong flying units for the Chinese?
So now the best option is to make all troops attack at range.
I respectfully disagree. Flying units aren’t quite the issue. Each and every civilization has an answer to them. Heroic archers and priests have very high multiplier and accuracy against mythic units. It is the player who are responsible to play reactively and scout often to build counter units. Chinese emphasize defensive play and late game mythic units. Their villagers are expensive, slow and highly susceptible to raiding losses. It is only fair for them to have strong late game presence to reward defensive play. Since last minor patch, Chinese rush potential and defensive god powers was heavily nerfed along with its pioneer hero and unique heroes.
They gather Wood and Gold three times as fast as a Greek Villager, Food twice as fast, cost about three times as much (plus Favor), three times as much population, but only take two times as long to train
AoM had flying units since the beginning.
The Titans added even more of them.
Now AoMR added new capabilities to fight the flying units to the Greeks and Norse even before adding the Chinese.
Every Greek Hero can fight flying units and the Norse now have a ranged Hero unit too.
Ally flying units are relatively slow and weak so it’s not much of a problem honestly.
Food 1.5x as fast and Wood/Gold 3x as Fast as a Greek Villager.
And not just roughly, exactly those numbers.
The walk times make it practically a little different but I can’t tell you if it’s in favour of the Greeks or Chinese.
The Chinese villagers are so bad that Kuafu are 2x as good for Good and 4x as good for Wood/Gold compared to them.
People forget how good the Greek economy is.
Even ignoring favour costs the Kuafu is on paar with Greek villagers in terms of cost efficiency.
The main advantage of the Kuafu is that they take 30 seconds to train, which is only 2x as long as a Villager.
It was an expression mistake, I didn’t mean that it was never meant to have flying units, I meant that the focus of the game wasn’t on that. My bad.
I agree with you that it was a really good idea for all the Greek heroes to be able to shoot at flying units now, but they did this to compensate for a problem they created by removing the long-range heroes from the Classical Age and making them more expensive. The Atlanteans never really had a problem with flying units (Phoenix and Nidhogg were the only ones outside the civ).
The Norse were the ones who suffered the most, so I was happy with the creation of the long-range hero, although I think a Hersir with long-range attack would solve the problem without the need for the new unit. They could also add an upgrade in the barracks or the armory that would make it possible for them to attack flying units at range.
I stand corrected.
That makes it even more important to make sure your Kuafu are on either Wood or Gold.
Chinese Villagers (Gatherers) work only 0.8 as fast as Greek Villagers, but take 100% of their training time.
Roughly you need 1 Kuafu for every 5 Gatherers to stay equal to Greek.