In the context of the discussion we’re talking about melee units that counter melee, so I said ranged units don’t counter other ranged units so yeah perhaps a better way to say is ranged infantry/cavalry lol.
Meanwhile aztecs JPK 
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It is interesting how it’s been fine that sepoy are so strong for this amount of time, so much so that an entire unit was unused, yet the moment they nerf the ridiculous sepoy and people try the other unit it gets called out for being too good. Even to the extent that people are making posts on here about how OP it is since the patch when it’s overall dps got nerfed, sepoy was fine though for so long…
Next we will be getting a post to nerf the macemen.
There’s always an exception to the rule, same with skirms there are pandours.
The point that was trying to be made is that there’s no reason musketeers should beat rajputs in melee if they’re both heavy infantry units, they are not counters at all. Rajputs are also considerably more expensive than musketeers, and more expensive than rodoleros.
If you want to counter them then you use skirms or artillery, sure they could get on top of the skirms same as rodoleros can for that reason you can block them with musk while the skirms do the real damage.
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(This might be a rant)
Oh GOD! one change in India and the whole ULTRA supremacy lovers start crying.
Meanwhile the team and treaty players are ded waiting for a decent buff since ages.
People have stereotyped India as a Sepoy rush civ in supremacy wayyy to much
that just simply any other strategy is too much contrasting, and gets noticed.
Meanwhile, there are highlander spamming dutch, insane chinacos, abnoxious game mechanisms, that never EVER reached this civ.
Meanwhile as for the Rajput everyone so much talking about :
PREVIOUSLY in 7.5 seconds :
90 dmg with 1.5 ROF , in 5 HITS , DPS = 12
NOW in 7.5sec :
84 Damage with 1.25 ROF , 6 HITS , DPS = 11.2
Speed has always been 5.5 since 2003 and the cost has been the same since 2003. and literally NO one used them, and I I really tried to push it in every way but it never happened. just simply not worth it.
At that time my realisation was, its a mini rodelero but worse in everyway and it mostly still is.
Meanwhile sepoy itself costs a 90f 30g and the Rajput is 90f 35w
That too with a civ that need wood for Villagers and houses and everything else 
yep
The soul of the civ is an anti-cav and melee civ, which it never became and neither its eco matched up to that.
Just due to sepoy rush ONLY people played it, and now the sepoy siege is nerfed so does it anti-cav multiplier, IDK what these polayers know about the challanges faced by the civ
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tbh for lategame I think its not that good but there is a deathball timing for it so I would rather just keep the current melee stats, tone down the siege and give the siege back to sepoy
also cost rebalance but thats another thing
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It doesn’t replace the sepoy because the sepoy has a lot of upgrades but it is a nice alternative for anti-cav, it’s not like it shreds musk either in fact equal res of musk probably still beat it cost effectively (rajput costs more than a sepoy) because you’re going to have musks in the back firing while each rajput is wandering around trying to get in melee combat.
I’m just pleased to see something other than sepoy/gurkha for once.
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But +15w cost not solve the problem.
Need nerf siege, speed or dmg.
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It will lower the number of rajputs zerging you though.
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It is indeed nice to have the sepoy brought down to a combination of Janissary and Redcoat as opposed to better than both combined.
Now I do agree and that musks beat rajputs. Anyone can check this in scenario editor. Its not unreasonable to blob up 30 or so musks till age 2 and then ship 2 falcs. That can and does solve the problem.
But one thing to keep in mind is that villagers dont cost food and India has access to two wood trickles by age 2 (up to 216 wood/min) so the real cost of making rajputs for indians may not be the same as the cost for making as many musks for other civs. Wood cost is usually a hurdle but in the context of this civ it just means saving up for the next age or adding gurkhas.
The Rajputs are strong but bearable. Its the macro in the background that makes causes the problems.
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I see it the same way, the unit itself is fine, but a bit to easy to mass since India can gather ungodly amounts of wood quickly.
musketeers generally do well vs melee inf due to their high dmg output, hp and melee resist.
Coz villagers cost WOOD which is a harder resource to collect, rather than other civs who rely on food.
and to compensate that, those 2 trickles are a compulsion and occupy 2 card slot, decreasing the flexibility further. If those trickles are so OP, one must try playing India without any of those or only ONE of those trickle.
Upto 2 batch of rajputs the wood can run fine but after that there should be a sacrifice for spamming more rajputs.
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TBH what I see here is just people who DONT know or have never played with India, discovering an unpopular,mediocre Indian unit becoming a little more usable, and not able to digest.
Meanwhile as an India main, I have to always always adjust to every patch and ultra wierd mechanism.
be it maigidi, Mercenaries, abnoxious canons(gattling/papal/faster factories), insurgents, musk killing chinacos, 1000 avatars of mexico/USA, highlander, berssgali etc etc etc etc. Pretty much every civ now has 3 absurd mechanics and 2-3 units that dont follow the typical rock paper scissor resistance/tag/multiplier/attack.
That too without ever been able to span a cannon. 
There are ONLY nerfs for India in this patch,
Sepoy nerf,
Rajput nerf,
Consulate nerf,
Eco/Karni mata nerf,
Rocket nerf
And ONLY by-product that came out was, people are now pushed to make rajputs. and even in that people cant adjust their play and knowledge of the civ.
Just because you never knew about a unit existed in the game, doesn’t mean you just ask for nerfing an already nerfed unit once it gained a little popularity.
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Not really. Both tickles is just enough to cover for the villager production. The military has nothing to do with the tickle before you max out villagers. While India send both tickles, other civs send 7 or 8 villagers, and only need 4 hunters with hunting dogs to cover for the villagers production. So they are still 1 or 2 villagers ahead, if we exclude the extra villagers for the other indian card.
Indians get cheaper houses, extra settlers and 2 wood upgrades as their eco bonus, but the long term eco is not ahead of everyone else. They arent saving up anything for next age.
India in treaty has always been in a rough spot as the civ has always been slightly overtuned in Supremacy and undertuned in treaty. In addition to being hard to play due to its military options.
I didnt have much time to play recently and feel the Rajput strength. But by looking at the stats, I still see a Halberdier with higher movement speed and age2 availability but much lower hp and a wood cost making it hard to affort in kater stages of the game. And weak to skirms, which is a unit India has trouble to deal with.
Are the rajput that strong against skirms (assuming the fight is not starting at melee range) ?
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Forget about rajput, can we just ralk about how india is unable to beat a turtling european player?. Like italy malta, brit, heavy fortification is gg. India has stupid elephant but just die to culverin, and anything else. No mortar, while european push with mortar and culv, the siege elephant has to stay away. They are mortar +culv but only has 30 range and die to culv. European culv is 34 range and mortar is 40 range. Impossible. India player has to out micro opponent so hard, by a huge margin, to be able to compete on even ground. The reality is every other civ has some mortar like units, india doesn’t
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They would be the only ones with AK to get walls bonus to compensate, not everyone.
Coz villagers cost WOOD which is a harder resource to collect, rather than other civs who rely on food.
While India send both tickles, other civs send 7 or 8 villagers, and only need 4 hunters with hunting dogs to cover for the villagers production. So they are still 1 or 2 villagers ahead, if we exclude the extra villagers for the other indian card.
Aw HECK naw. This has been covered before and very often. Listing out all the varied perks India is allowed to have MORE than makes up for wood cost vils.
You need 4 vils on wood for vil production 3 more for buildings and then its free just 200+ wood/min as fast as age 2. Do Indians need to pay for age ups with the same resource needed to make vils? No - thats why they dont lack for extra 7 - 8 vils in age. Then military units (sepoy, Gurkha) dont compete with vills for food in starting age 2. Between that and the other mechs the civ does have - free vils per shipments, livestock to speed up shipments, French consulate crates and gather bonuses, up to 3 trickles active by age 2 - Im not having any crap about the macro being at all weaker.
Its even with other civs in terms of math and so needs no nerf but it IS alot more comfortable in terms of macro. No downplaying that.
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Play with India, if India is soo good no one is stoppping people to do so .
India is pretty much forced to send the 2 wood trickle cards though, they will cover vill production then you can leave another few vills on wood for other stuff. That’s quite a negative being forced to send 2 cards, 1 of which is in age 2 cards. If you don’t send them you really feel the difference and I’m not a big india main or something but I felt the difference when playing them without using the second trickle for example.
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