Why is everyone talking about Aztecs - is that actually a definite civ they are doing? Are people aware that Aztecs are a completely different time period to all the others? Aztec is 1300-1521 according to a quick Wiki search. At least with Mayans they are an ancient civilisation, and also Celts are ancient - all around 2,000-2,500 years ago more or less.
As for the poll, Japanese seems quite similar to Chinese - and Celts or Pre-Islamic would have been better choices. They should also think about their player base - if you have Arab-type Gods then that might draw in many more players of that background. That’s just my opinion.
I think most people are saying Aztec because there is a very popular mod for the original game adding an Aztecs civ. I’ve been saying a Mesoamerican civ to give room for the Devs to do Aztecs, Mayans, or maybe even Olmecs or something. Either way I think that whatever civ we get will have a majority influence of one civ but minority influences from neighbors in the area.
I guess it’s the “False Hype Suggestion” effect; someone must have planted the rumor that the next DLC would be about the Aztecs, “And they believed it so much” that even though the news about Japanese is great (I mean, getting 2 DLCs with a long campaign in less than 1 year for an RTS these days is actually quite a lot), they start ranting.
Regarding whether the aztec could be included in the future, you’re right that they’re very “later” than other civilizations:
Age of Mythology is set in a “Before Christ” era and in the “mythological” period of civilizations. The Aztecs are from a period of change after Christ (1300-1521 AD).
Now, it’s a video game, and its theme is “Mythology”; and the Aztecs are a civilization that no longer exists, and their religion is, well, now a mythology, so I don’t think there’s much of a problem with including them.
But hey, THEY ALREADY EXIST", there are very popular Aztec mods, which I’ve also played, and it would just be a matter of the devs considering several ideas from these mods or calling on their own developers to create an Aztec civ in a future DLC.
I’m surprised the popularity of the “Rise of the Gods” mod, or the second mod, “Aztec Mod,” has reached such an extent that people were suggesting it would be the next DLC for sure.
Both mods are great, but well, I think Age of Mythology Retold is still “too early” (it’s due out in October 2024) to be making risky moves like an Aztec DLC.
And I say risky" because first we had to wait and see if people would accept a Chinese “rework” with the Immortal Pillars DLC.
And well, THEY ACCEPTED THEM. But now comes the risky part:
The Aztecs are a civ from 1300-1521 → Will the devs accept a civ from a time after Christ?
They would be a civ with human sacrifice → Will the devs have the courage to allow that mechanic?
There are mods, good mods → Will the developers consider calling the mod developers?
I think the first two parts will be fulfilled, but I don’t know about the third. On the other hand, even if they started making the mod “right now”, it would take at least 1 year or 2 to do so.
On the other hand, the Japanese DLCn seems to have been developing it since the game started in 2024 or even before, and they’re just now revealing it.
Japanese have myth units that are from the Muromachi period and edo period. The japanese human units are from azuchi-momoyama period. Devs just broke Ensemble studios’ idea of the timeframe of the game.
What do you mean “different time period to all the others”?
The Egyptians were 4000 BCE to 30 BCE, with arguably their peak around 2700 BCE to 1000 BCE.
Greek mythology is based around myths recorded from 900 BCE to about 150 BCE.
Norse mythology peaked much later than these two, around 790 CE to 1100 CE.
Atlantean mythology is based on Greek myths.
Sure, the Aztecs as a civilisation were around more recently than these. But it’s not like there’s any serious rule about when they should be set already.
Well from a quick search, samurai were around from 1100 AD to 1800 AD. Shinobi weren’t popular until the sengoku period. Which was around 1400 AD. Seems to me Aztecs would fit into that timeframe since they were alive and kicking from 1300 AD to 1500 AD. I’d also be fine with the Mayans who were around from 2000 BC to 1697 AD. I think it’s ok to have pantheons from different time periods fight. AOM has always been more geared toward fun first and not necessarily realism. Seems weird that some complain about the timeframe for Aztecs but not this rendition of the Japanese which is set in the same timeframe.
Yeah I think too that “ghostly ice-spirit woman who lures men into death like mermaids” and even “giant snake lady with human head” would have been very interesting choices web more compelling than a giant head on a wheel (even this is a very ballsy and creative idea) but oh well.. maybe in the 4th major for dlc in one, two, threecyears who knows.
People are bringing up the Aztecs as an option because:
1: It’s highly requested and has a great level of interest in the community.
2: It was one of the few civs added through mods in the steam workshop when AoM EE was all we had.
And other civs in AoM, particularly the Norse pantheon, are also from the ~1300s… Shintoism is from BCE era, but they are featuring a lot with the Japanese pantheon that is more modern (samurai are from 12th - 19th century))
The Norse look pretty medieval. Some of their equipment like the heater shields are like 1200 AD.
But the Japanese look more like 1500-1600 AD in some of their aesthetics. Kinda disappointing after they made the Chinese look a lot more ancient.
I don’t see much of an issue with the Aztecs being 1500 AD because of their geographical isolation from the old world.
Does it really matter if 2 civilisations are from the same time in history if they didn’t interact with each other at all.
It would also be very very hard to authentically represent any older American civilisation because of the leak of historical evidence. The same way we can’t have any earlier representation of the Norse. We only really know Norse mythology from the time the conversion to Christianity already started.
Thanks for your reply but I disagree with the sentiment of your post.
A little research suggests that Norse mythology roots can go back thousands of years - Your dates of around 790 AD seem unlikely seeing as the Vikings actually landed on Britain at the lower end of your timeline in 792 - already with their beliefs firmly ingrained over centuries. (As for their technology found in this game then sure it was probably developed later as you say). Also, check out Wiki pages Nordic Bronze Age and Battle Axe Culture. If you Google “earliest mention of gods in runes” it says that Odin was already being mentioned in 5th Century AD.
As for the others, Ancient Greece (Wiki) was as far back as 12th century BC - remember, Alexander the Great (c350 BCE) founded Alexandria and is mentioned in hieroglyphs. (And as you say Atlanteans are a spin off). As for China they basically go back to whenever you want to draw the line - the word ‘China’ ultimately comes from the Qin dynasty, also at our crossover point c200BCE.
It’s never going to be perfect but it seems like the current time period which works nicely and doesn’t start to feel like an Age of Empires game (in my opinion) is around this time period.
It’s all a bit of fun of course, but my understanding is that ‘Aztecs’ were a much later group of people - and another quick Google search - the Spanish actually used guns against the Aztecs.. so I mean.. for me it just doesn’t really work.
For me it’s the use of this word ‘Aztecs’ - and I wasn’t aware of the popular mod to be honest. As for Japanese - the civilisation itself, like Chinese can go back as far as the other Pantheons here (to my time period of 200 BCE) so is not a problem for me.
As for using things like Samurai - well I guess they are later and similar to how some units are certainly of a later time period (I guess also the idea of ‘Age of’ means that we will be ageing up anyway - so there should be some acceptable spread).
I would highly recommend doing some research on mesoamerican culture. The Aztec empire is more modern, yes, but it is derived from a cultural heritage going back thousands of years. Quetzalcoatl, the feathered serpent God, is only their representation of an identical diety that can be seen in Mayan and Toltec mythology, depictions being seen as far back as the Olmec civilization.
There’s a really deep and lengthy conversation to be had, but the situation isn’t too far away from what people have mentioned with norse mythology being depicted from a post-christian influence perspective. I would even argue that the greek pantheon we have in the game is a modern interpretation, though it does have historic roots.
It is a common trope with mythology for it to be warped by ‘modern’ depictions, the legendary Trojan War was mythologized 400 years after its occurance in Homer’s Iliad and Odyssey, for example.
Edit: I’ll also say historical representations don’t bother me in this context because none of these pantheons interacted with each other at all. Age of Mythology is a fantasy setting, with legends and myths mingling in a fun kind of way. This concept can stretch really far because of it, so I think it’s more about having fun than being about an era in history… though the depictions should still honor their source material!
I don’t know where this idea is coming from. Nobody planted a rumor that the next DLC would 100% be Aztecs or any other pantheon for that matter. As far as I’m aware we weren’t sure what civ was coming out next.
For me personally, I played the original and then the titans. I saw EE on steam years ago and saw that they released the Chinese expansion. Long story short(er) I really didn’t like the campaign and several reskinned units. So I delved into the workshop and found the Aztecs. Which to me was a way more interesting civ to play with then the Chinese, which at the time was rushed.
To be clear I do not dislike the Japanese pantheon. I just would have rather had a more unique civ which I was also more familiar with the mythology. I think the Japanese will be a great addition to the game. The devs have done a really good job with making/keeping each pantheon unique. I don’t think this will be any different. Hopefully as someone else pointed out they can tie in the Chinese campaign heroes to the Japanese campaign. I also like that they decided to go with 12 missions rather then the 9 for Chinese. I also think there will be mechanics or units I like or dislike about the Japanese just like all other pantheons.
As far as I can tell nobody has been ranting. It all seems fairly civil to me. It just seems like plenty of passionate fans. Ones who love that we are getting Japanese next and those who wanted another pantheon.
is it only me or does it feel like you think i wrote passive-aggressive? cause i was not. of course there are fanbases and player-audiences which are toxic. aom retold playerbase/fanbase is not. but still i read salty comments thats all.
i played the azetc mods for EE too and i really appreciated and liked them but i still would prefer maya over aztec personally and yes the aztec mods were way better in quality than the old EE chinese. didn’t like many things of EE chinese which thankfully got fixed. new chinese are a solid 8 if not 9/10. EE chinese was like a 1 or 2/10 for me.
Also lets face it, i’m sure there are a lot of people that would be up in arms if a Japanese civ didn’t have Samurai, because that’s just what they expect. There is a pop-culture element to AOM as well that I think needs to be kept in mind.
I didn’t think you were being aggressive. I guess I should’ve directed my comment more toward the the post you quoted. I was clearing up a misconception that the fans that wanted Aztecs or Mayans were just hopping on a bandwagon. For me Aztecs have been a personal favorite for years. So I would love to see them in AOM Retold.
Exactly. AoM is not a history game, it’s a mythology game. And that also includes, in a way, what the people nowadays commonly undersand a certain culture to be like.
There are some images we generally have in our cultural understanding that are connected to specific civilisations that aren’t our own.
In those images, samurai belong to Japan just as much as pyramids and mummies belong to Egypt.
Yes Aztec for sure, follow probably by Maya and maybe also Incas. Perhaps they will sell a premium mesoamericans pack which include the 3 civilizations.
. Remember this is the last free DLC of the Premium Edition.