Other civs get better mercs for less population cost, Germans get Black Riders which are 3 pop with Mercenary camps and the Bosniak for example is better than the Jat Lancer at 3 population as well.
9 Likes
yeah this unit is a bit too weak for 4 pop
in addition its kind of an age 3 unit but its unlocked in age 4 so maybe change that as well
4 Likes
I am not sure, Jet Lancers in age3 are extremely potent, they basically 1 kill skirms i think …There is also a card that unlocks them in fortress for India, kinda bad, but unlocking them by default is not good and what should they do with the card then?
same with lancers, they are extremly strong early as a shipment, but become a little less usefull later on, and jet lancers are like more than twice the damage as normal lancers
they dont but its close
their attack is 35 with x4 bonus against infantry
so its 140 damage
skirms with vet upgrade by default is 144 so its a lot of wasted damage if anything
in age 4 they also compete with the elemetto so a niche is open for them
I am also not talking about unlocking them by card, but for the random roll in the tavern
1 Like
Any change that makes mercs stronger has my approval. They should have Asian mercs shadowtech to imperial like Africans while they are at it or at least give the Asians a tech for it.
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Jat Lancers are faster than Hussars which are typically faster than spanish lancers, elmeti and other heavy duty cavalry. But yeah they need a pop buff.
But Yojimbo…No they are too good.
3 Likes
Amen! And also giving them infinite merc shipments in age IV, like they did for Europeans, Asians where completely left out of the DE mercenary rework for some reason:
Euros:
Finally extending the effect of Asian shipment upgrades to be more general, specially the ones that are equivalent to counter-infantry rifling.
3 Likes
Yes, but not for Japan
1 Like
Yes for Japan. To play merc strat you have to go through a very different path as Japan than the traditional OP one, so it is just a different playstyle and not a general buff.
Remember that Ronin and Hatamoto are different units, if that is what you are concerned about. The buff shouldn’t affect consulate mercenary units further.
Hatamoto are still mercs
I’m sure this can be coded for exceptions.
No, 15 units popping from a daymio is a huge bad idea, worse if is a shogun with artillery too
another point worth noting is that japan is one of the only civs I think which doesnt have an infinite native shipment (besides the new ones), arguably because lategame they have a military pop advantage backed up by a fairly beefy eco and universal buffs. A similar reason is probably applied to the merc shipments
giving japan the ability to overpop by like 30 pop + it being mercs is a fairly dicey proposition given all that
Yojimbo are amazing units.
All the Euro civs can do it too, you can send one of the infinite Age IV mercenary shipments at 199 pop and boom you have a decent amount of overpop, the only difference is that Japan can send their to the Daymios. TBH I never liked the idea for any units to receive shipments at all and they should remove it from the Daymios as well as the artillery training of Shogun Tokugawa.
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Yeah it sounds like it is more of a problem of Daymios being a shipment point. Being stable+barracks+aura seems like enough
Thats not where the problem lies. Japan has a military pop advantage against most civs (except dutch) because they can only get 75 vils but they have extremely powerful, universal buffed(with both auras, advanced arsenal musket techs and the consulate) units and a massive eco along with it.
japan at 199 pop to overpop is a 124 pop army instead of just 101 and unlike china where their units are designed to be weaker, japanese units are strong. So japan potentially having a 150 overpop deathball is a lot more scary then euro civs being able to do it. Then add on native units as well.
I’ll stand by my point. The Euro Merc shipments are 43 pop for the Holy Roman Army, 47 for Highland Mercenaries and 32 for Mediterranean Mercs (which is way worse than the other 2), so Euro civs can also get an almost 150 pop deathball rolling, the Dutch even more sol and the mercs are way better for the Euro civs, especially if you age up with the Mercenary contractor in Age V and especially for Germans and Swedes who get an extra upgrade for their mercs. And they can do it as often as they get shipments, Euro units are also not really much worse than Japanese units. So Japan is stuck with 2 times 5 Ronin + 5 Yojimbo which easily get picked off by micro and the second one is 15 Ronin for 4500 gold and they aren’t upgraded in any way so they get shitcanned by artillery and skirms as well while being so expensive that basically no one risks sending them in the first place. Japan and for that matter all the other Asian civs just don’t get such good late game shipments and the only problem that persists is that the shipment can reach the enemy via Daimyo. I’m sure there a way to balance infinite Mercs with Japan and there shouldn’t be a problem adding some to India and China.
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the word “much” is doing a lot of carrying here but just to note a lategame ashigaru has 68 attack, nearly 20% higher then the best euro musk. The Yumi similarly is has like 50 atk lategame, only balanced by the fact that its not that good against heavy infantry lategame, but shreds basically everything else.
So again, a japan deathball is something much scarier then an euro deathball
remember the golden pavillion buff & aura buffs are not additive they multiply. So just take even the base mercs with japan and u already have imperial level mercs ( not accounting swedes) just from the upgrades japan already have. If they ever are insane enough to give all civs imperial mercs it will just be a terrifying stack. It will be the old Lakota teepee buff stack all over again.
You can but no one will be happy with the results, especially for japan, it will have to be either a tiny shipment, like atbest 15-20 pop max ( comparable to the infinite 6 nagi shipment) or you rework japan’s entire upgrade system
China and India is arguably doable as long as there is no imperial mercs shenanigans but japan is a different story