Reduce Thumb Ring and Pikeman upgrade cost and increase Cavalier upgrade cost

If Vikings get TR back, I’ll ask to remove Arbalester. And maybe reduce Chieftain cost.

Vikings with their top tier eco has the potential to get rid of the “problem”. With the removal of TR, Vikings player now need to switch into infantry (Berserk/Pikeman) which is really good to see. If anything we should encourage more on infantry. Not the other way around.

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I could live with that, but they could do with getting halb if you want to encourage more infantry play

Pikes with extra Hp over a halb and decent compensation anti cav power don’t need to become Halbs with 12 extra HP and 5 extra cav damage.

5 Likes

Was about to say the same as DynasticPlanet5. Halb +20% HP, +5 bonus attack is OP.

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Halb doesn’t need a buff… It’s in a good spot in the trash counter triangle.
But general spearman line could get a HP boost yes, in the exchange Halbs could do less bonus damage.

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I think it is a very good compensation that will shut up everyone who ask for TR bad

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Halb isn’t an OP unit, even with the tech bonus. Because they dont have mobility. You can just run away. And it’s not like they’d have no counter.

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Not by itself it isn’t, but combined with their monster eco, buffed champs and siege rams, it becomes very difficult to fight when using non A tier civs. So while it might be balanced in some matchups, many matchups it won’t be.

That extra hp is worth a lot in every matchup, unlike for example Teutons halbs being equally weak to ranged, or malians lack blast furnace so getting beaten by even generic halbs (a civ which could actually do with getting halbs back)

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Agree from the 3 trash units Halb is potentially the best “balanced” one. It’s potentially even a bit too strong in comparison to skirms. But that’s imo more a problem of the skirms, not the Halbs.

Don’t say i don’t want to see any changes to halbs, but IF i want to see a tradeoff more than a straight-up buff. Especially when it comes to the interaction with heavy cav and eles in the lategame.

Vikings will switch infantry in late Imperial Age anyway due to Vikings stable being garbage. If you want to encourage Vikings infantry play, you must buff infantry in Castle Age. In late Imperial Age, even non-infantry civs goes Halberdier because it is insane late game unit on par with Hussar. Removal of thumb ring didn’t boost infantry play for Vikings. I want Thumb Ring back too for Vikings.

As for infantry, I proposed 0.95 speed for Militia-line, 10 attack for Longsword, 65 hp Two-handed Swordman, cheaper Champion upgrade, 2 Melee armor Champion before (some non-infantry civs won’t have Champion like Mongols, Cumans, Turks, Berbers, Poles). As for UU infantries (except rangeds), I proposed 2 PA for all of them in exchange for 4-5 less hp to Elite ones like 75 HP, 2 PA Samurai and Woad Raider.

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it did, because now it is no longer as viable to go for arbalests as your power unit.
so what unit are you going to go for? either halb-siege or berserkers

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Pros still go Arbalest with Vikings. They switch into Pikeman-Berserker in very late game. Vikings’ eco need to be nerfed, Arbalest’s nerf was really bad. If free Hand Cart removed as civ bonus and infantry gotten these bonuses I proposed, people will start to use infantry in Castle, I am hoping.

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Not really because you will win with Ram+Arbalester with TR anyway.

It has been buffed. Berserk in Castle age is a very strong unit now. No need to buff their infantry further.

True. They got more HP for infantry and Castle Age Berserk got a massive buff. Altogether boosted their infantry play.

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Without good eco, it is really hard to go for berzerk considering how expensive are FU berzerk. So this hurts their infantry play.

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So make the upgrade + Bezerkergang a bit cheaper to compensate

I am more curious how it would impact the game if pikes get +2 damage vs cav

vikings would get tr back but loose arbalester maybe free handcart but still wheelbarrow for free

After all it could equaly count to every civ that have just pikes

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I don’t understand this drive towards TR? You guys are literally encouraging viking xbow play, yes it curbs their imperial potential,which makes the civ even more singular in its playstyle. but you get stronger late castle potential where most games are played out

And removing free handcart makes it even worse. The civ already has zero long term eco advantage. Nothing at all. Afaik hand cart helps their farming more than anything else, and farming is the most important eco for infantry

And giving them TR doesn’t make them more of an infantry civ. Infantry needs a buff before any civ is going to play them more. Removing options just makes the civ worse until their remaining options are made better

Look at drav and Bengalis, removing options just made them terrible civs, it didn’t encourage elephant play , until EA were buffed

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Berserk’s upgrade was arranged that expensive so as to compensate Vikings S Tier eco (best eco in the game in my opinion). so make UTs cheaper and problem will be fixed like 400f 300g Chieftains and 650f 350g Berserkergang.

No one use Castle Age 1 Pierce Armor UU infantries (Berserk, Samurai, Jaguar Warrior, Woad Raider) still. If these units gain +1 Pierce Armor, I think they will be usable unit in Castle Age. In return Elite versions will lose 5 hp. 75 hp 2 PA Elite Samurai and Woad Raider will be nice. 70 hp for Elite Berserk and Jaguar Warrior seems low but actually not that bad and they will be also stronger than current 1 PA 75 hp.

But in that way, infantry still wont be played as their eco is nerf while infantry need far better eco to support in castle age unless you remove crossbow from vikings. But this kills vikings.

Free wheelbarrow is alone one of the strongest eco bonus in the game. It increase farmer efficiency 13% (infantry cost food) and 7-8% to other villagers. It also gives 10% movement speed, so Vikings villager in Feudal Age escape from Militias, Archers and Scouts easier like Berbers. There is no need free hand cart if infantry is buffed way I am taking about.