Funny how you guys turn it into a Viper vs hera laming contest. Or aM vs secret laming contest.
When actually all players from all teams agree on the fact that laming should be banned from tournaments.
Even Viper at the end of HC3, told that he only lamed because it was allowed and an easy way to win, but he would have actually preferred if laming was banned from the tourney.
I am never been lamed by any opponent. I really think laming is non existing at lower levels. Even on my level it is no issue at all. Your boars never got lamed at my level. I do think it only affects top 20% of players. At this moment i think laming is too common and too decisive for the game.
I heard pros talking about boar laming and it seems like much more easy now than it was before on HD / Voobly. I am not really into boar laming (never done it), but if i remember correctly what some pro said (please correct me if i am wrong):
You just have to hit the boar once to get aggro. No need to hit twice. This makes boar lures with vills more easy, but also for the scout or eagle.
On HD / Voobly you could more easily block the boar when you got lamed. So you could do something against the lame. On DE this is much harder.
Both points make boar luring an low risk, high reward strat. Of course pros will go for this. If i would had the skills, i would go for this too. If i can, i steel some sheeps. That requires much less skill. That is also more low risk, low reward (less food).
I do feel boar steals are part of the game and dont need to be patch out. I do feel it needs to have higher risk. Lets give some ideas:
Boars have extra attack against scouts and eagles. This means more damage to your scout or eagle.
Make it so the scout / eagle still needs to boar twice before he gets aggro. This also means more damage to your scout of eagles.
Blocking the boar must be more viable for the player getting lamed (like it was on Voobly). At this moment you cant really do any thing about the lame. After this change, you can do something about getting boar lamed.
Aggro now only get lost if scout/eagle is out line of sight of gaia. This needs to be changed to out of the line of sight of the boar. In most games this dont really matter, but it is just something so the aggro will be lost more quickly.
I dont think so. I think most players dont really care. Like i said: laming is only a thing for the top 20% of the players. It won’t really affect 80% of the players. I dont really know if they all want boar laming out of the game. I even think a big part dont even know anything about boar laming.
This is implemented, i dont remember in whitch patch, but now scout need to hit boar twice and still is risc the animal lost interest and go back. Only Vills need hit boar once, what helps luring on lower levels.
No, it isnt mandatory to one hit with vills without loom.That you only hit the boar once for vills is a DE feature. On HD or at voobly you had to hit twice. Even at lower levels you saw boar lures. I must see i lost vills much more frequently at Voobly and HD than now with DE.
Thanks. I didnt know that. Like i said: I dont steal boars 11
My suggestion that was ignored was to slow the boar speed (helps new player) and make boar los slightly bigger(helps the 1 hit function that sometimes doesn’t work). You could lame in that way but the boar would be so slow that you would be way behind in scouting.
I think this could be a good compromise.
Keep the boar laming a possibility but make it more diffcult and more risky. That would actually be more fair.
At the moment, it is a low risk, high reward thing (when you reach a certain level and your multi-tasking and speed are good). That is the issue, and the reason why it is used to win games in high stake tourneys.
If they’re gonna keep boar laming, at least make it higher risk. High risk for high reward.
I don’t know exactly how many hits from a boar a Dark Age scout can take at the moment (I think about 6 or 7, maybe someone knows the exact number?), but it should be reduced by a lot.
Scouts shouldn’t be able to tank more than 3 or 4 hits. Then it would actually be a significant risk to lame a boar (even at higher ELO), and would make the merit of the high reward (700 food difference at 8min… almost the price of Castle Age in food) at least a bit more fair.
Even though I’d rather it is removed completely, the least they could do is actually make it more fair, in my opinion.
There should already be a code that functions for boar laming for scouts (if hits >=2 follow scout in simple words). It would be easier to modify that number instead of making the scout weaker. If hits >=4 , for example.
Anyway i disagree with the post that laming should be removed but i agree that it it high reward low risk thing to do currently specially considering hunting gathering is faster than handcart farming and thy hunting have better gathering than aztec eco bonus.
imo it feels like there’s two different over all thought patterns on how AOE2 should or shouldnt be played… with a number of players wanting it to be more strategic(new AOE2) and others more tactical/micro based(old AOE2)… auto seeding, auto scout etc improve the strategic level of play since more time can be put into strategic play instead of micro managing certain lower functions. laming is very micro heavy, and very little strategic thought required, who wouldnt want such a large food swing?
i also hardly ever see boar laming in my games, but i wouldnt mind if they made it even harder or impossible… there is very little in this game(if anything?) that provides such a massive punishment to the opposing player purely based on the micro skill of the opponent, and especially so early in the game, especially when we factor the RNG of the boar placement, potentially exponentially swinging the difficulty of counter laming vs the ease of being lamed…
I agree with you, that the boar laming is just part of the game.
I think the name of the player- TheViper is not connected with any Snakes. May be it is connected with the name of Vikings. Also, I think, that at the country- Norway, where live that player- TheViper, there are not any snakes. If that player see very often snakes in his country, surely, he will not choose that name…
Also, may be he chose that name, because it is interesting as something unseen in his country.
Laming on low levels is fun, because none of them know how to play properly so it doesn’t affect the outcome so much other than pissing the enemy.
Laming on decent and good levels is GG specially stealing a boar, being behind 350 food min 6 vs a players as good as you is over, the time you need to recover will lead the opponent to a greater advantage, every single expert knows that, laming is not hard anyone can do it, specially on DE due the quick response.
Boar should inflict +20 damage vs scout and +25 vs eagle scout, that would fix the problem, stealing 2 boars is really easy and it shouldn’t be a thing, the other argument of pro lamers or lame defenders is that they need the scout to lure boars on maps like islands(also the same players who ban that map lol), you have villagers for that purpose, there shouldn’t be special treats for nostalgic players.
I agree that there is too little counter-play in boar luring, but I don’t think it should be completely removed, like your examples would do. I have a couple of options that might work to keep it in, but increase the risk of doing it, or make counter-play easier:
Increase boar damage to scouts (increased loss of scout hp would make it a bit less worth and messing up with scout and taking another boar hit could kill the scout)
make boar run slower (gives enemy more time to send their scout to intercept, more micro intensive for lure since you have to zig-zag more)
Just a couple quick thoughts, I’m sure there are plenty more that would nerf boar luring without completely removing.