REMOVE gambeson from Armenian!

I guess the game is more balanced for 1v1 arabia, I understand that, but still sometimes i play team it is very frustrated. If opponent is a pocket on semi closed map like oasis,

Arbalester cannot even kill them! They flood your archers like nothing with gambeson and 100hp! They are almost like malian champskarls, but with the attack upgrade. They also probably have the best eco in late game with super efficient farming and lumber camps. I even tried chu ko nu thinking their higher attack will help, but no they eat my castles with champion alone. Even a FU castle fully garrisoned CKN cannothold it, because 100 hp +gambeson is so op. I already killed this flank but the pocket spam this one unit and came back win. I have nothing against that. We had a huge score lead because we completely wiped out his flank. But the armenian guy just spam this one unit and win because our civ has no counter to his champion, cannot use ranged unut and cannot use melee unit. Idk if spamming one unit can win u the game is this better skill? The only counter is probably hand cannons/slinger but so many civs don’t have them

Civs with no hand cannoneer have no chance against those guys. Arbs feel so useless these days with all kinds of high PA imfantry and cavalry and gambeson upgrade.

Tankiness against arrows is much better than tankyness in melee, and much better than attack bonuses because infantry most important thing is to reach opponent and tank damage. They can kill a fully garrisoned castles in no time while doesn’t take a lot of damage, while still being one of the strongest in melee if not the strongest.

In comparison malian ones are only stronger in range but below average in melee missing attack also means they can’t kill a castle fast.

While aztecs japan, slav dravidian champion are only stronger in melee, only if they can reach target. But before they reach they die to ranged units. This armenians champion is stronger in both range and melee, even trade well vs paladins.

Please change that bonus to +20 hp or remove gambeson from armenians

As Chinese, I’m pretty sure Rocketry Heavy Scorpions with a meatshield could win this fairly easily. Also, I really don’t think Gambesons should be taken away from them, because in terms of lategame unit options, Armenians kind of suck. You basically have infantry, monks, and situationally the Composite Bowman, and that’s basically it. Usable but not great Arbs, terrible cav, and awful siege. So if the Champs are basically their only truly good means of taking out buildings, I don’t see that as a problem.

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How are Armenian Champions (that need a castle and Fereters) totally OP? following such logic then Viking Champions must be totally OP as well (better and faster economy, extra HP as civ bonus, and Chieftains so they also counter cavalry as well, they have Gambesons as well).

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Scorpion is slow, can’t run away and dodge Bbc. And if i make them, opponent don’t even need to fight me they can just walk to everywhere and attack. My scorp cant even catch up. Also scorp is only effective when many of them are bunched up, or all in one place. Champion spam can flood all over the places, requiring little to no micro. Archer player have to micro very very hard else archers die to Champions

TG can’t be balanced.

I know they are OP, but there are a lot of OP units at different timing on different map,

under the same gold cost, only Khmer scorpion can counter champion

84 hp and 100 hp is a big difference. Armenians eco is also much better in late game they can afford all that. Viking only start faster but Armenians full potential is much higher making it op

basically every meatshield units + anti infantry units beat them.

How that matters when Vikings eco is already the fastest here?? and the HP is a civ bonus for the matter.

Late game potential. Viking has free HC wheels, but once armenian get wheels and HC, pop maxed, and then armenians have better wood chooping, better eco upgrade, 16 extra hp champion

Oh no ! One civ has good champions in the late game ! That is horrible !

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Goths should get nerf. They can flood champions more than Armenians.

If you cannot even handle champs, you likely cannot handle {Paladin,Savar,a ton of other units} anyway.

4 Likes

I have halberdier for those guys. But champion’s counter is arbs, which cannot even kill the champs

Mass scorpions, heavy cav archers can also kill them. Btw, can you show the video of that game? I am curious how chu ko nu lose to Armenian champions

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Pick Roman, Turks, Bohemian, Teuton, Khmer, Aztec, Mongols, Problem solved.

Arbs can’t counter champion with the same gold cost. Arbs timing is much earlier than champion spam so you need to take advantage early. You should play War Elephant if you don’t care about timing.

But i have to be some certain civs to be able to beat it, that’s a problem. The fact that i completely destroyed his flank already with my pocket, and that opponent pocket was able to spam only one unit and comeback win that just,show that unit is OP. In that game I was Chinese, and I don’t have hand cannoneers. The best counter is arb, which doesn’t even counter it. Don’t talk about timing. His armenian pocket sacrificed his flank to spam champs. Of course he has a better eco than us.

Tbh I think all Champion should have same stat as Armenians but lose Supplies in return. Maybe 1 less PA meaning Gambeson is also removed, if it seems OP for some other civs.

Why you decided to use archer as a meatshield in TGs anyway?

Ask your ally to go some knights, they shred champs.
As you are chinese, you can also go cav/champ+UU to stall time.

(Multi unit comps are more expensive - but they are more effective than single unit comps)

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Scorpion with +4 attack is better choice imho.