Its ridiculous how easy it is to turtle up, particularly on certain maps with choke points and just win with a wonder. Its basically impossible for the enemy team to push through mass turtling in an attrition game to kill the wonder in 15 minutes. Between mass walls, castles and just spamming Springalds to kill enemy siege its simply not possible to kill the wonder in time.
Either straight up remove wonders which is my preference because wonders are cheese and its not fun to either win or lose because of them or scale the time it takes to achieve a wonder victory based on the game mode and number of players.
Maybe a nice way of balancing wonders would be to remove wonder victory as a separate thing, and instead make it so that having a wonder counts as holding a sacred site.
Typically maps have 3 sites, so with a wonder built you would only need to control 2 of them in order to start the timer. This would still be pretty strong, and should be effective in a forcing a faster end to the game (which seems to be the point of wonder victories) but this way you have to still be controlling a lot of the map rather than just defending one area.
Some people will say that victory by wonder is something traditional in AoE, so it would be harmful to remove it. They even could say that you can re-define victory conditions: Destroying all landmarks means defeating a player and that sounds reasonable for ranked… even sacreds sites seems reasonable (for most of the maps, mainly because they tend to be fairly distributed)
However, I agree with you: having one opponent build a wonder in a 4v4 game means you have to go through 4 cities before reaching said wonder.
I would suggest that make the wonder build time longer (+50% could be reasonable) and that build time cannot be improved in any way (no tech nor civ bonus) and (this is the best part) in order to trigger the wonder victory timer, each member of the team should have a wonder finished, and if one of the wonders falls, the timer stops.
Think about it: in a 4v4 game, if just one of them builds a wonder to win you have other 3 players that will not invest economy in the victory: they only have to defend… but if instead each of them have to build a wonder, now the eco of the whole team is heavily affected, and the attacking team will have an edge over the defending team. Of course, they still can put the four wonders in the far edge of the map, but they will loose a lot of resources and will get a lot of walking time for all the villagers that will go there to build them.
I think the wonder-win and the sacred-sites-win are related in each other. After in-game announcements in an issue that the wonder was built, players can make sacred sites winnings so sacred sites are earlier than wonders.
In my personal opinion, both sacred sites and wonders require additive 1 minute per player. For example, In 4v4 teamgames, sacred sites completions in 13 minutes and wonder completions in 18 minutes.
Alternative idea… just brainstorming. How about removing the Wonder victory condition in team matches and instead make building one similar to controlling a Plenty Vault from Age of Mythology, providing a small trickle of resources for whoever built it. The trickle amount could equal the cost of construction being returned over 5 (10, 15?) minutes. Meaning destroying the wonder would be a high priority, but not a do-or-die. Also, one-time only construction per player. Lose it = No rebuild.
Just make Wonder countdown times scale with map sizes, that would solve 99% of people’s complaints about Wonders.
It’s ridiculous to have the same 15 minutes for 1v1 and 4v4. In 1v1, my army can walk to the other side of the map in 1 minute. In 4v4, need at least 3 minutes.
This is very interesting. The people in this article are saying that the victory of World Wonders is too strong and should be deleted. In another article on the forum, people said that Fire Lancer is too strong and should be deleted.
Maybe this is normal, I just found another article saying that French Hulk is too strong and should be deleted. So this is OK.
Yes, people constantly complain about stuff, and say it should either be nerfed or removed. Some of the time it’s nonsense, but a sometimes, it is a very valid point, especially if a large number of people agree.
Yeah its interesting for me as well. If someone thinks that FL are +++ for actual gameplay and playing experience and not broken at all (specially their ability to prepare another charge? - yeah why to not make an ez fix like: Recharge is completed only when unit is 5s stanionary) OR SPECIALLY fix their anti-structure(anti-landmark specially) capability (yeah seems legit for me that a horde of guys on horses can tear down a castle within 5s and snipe all landmarks in 30s)
Well in that case u are very interesting person for me as well. Pro-China biased based on your profile picture OR simply stupid OR 1v1 player only
Btw. read this again I said no word about deleting this unit.
Btw. Very very interesting
(Btw. Wonders in TG on maps where is one corridor only way to reach enemy are really annoying and price should be increased) - by this u would not inflict 1v1/2v2s since wonders are tabu there
I think that wonder victory is fine. The only thing that i would change is the price. Increment the price for each team player 1k resources at least (4 players wonder, 7000)
It seems to be the trend that people complain about a game mechanic they just don’t like. It’s a part of the game. You have to learn to adjust your strategy in such a way where you calculate the possibility of the opponent building a wonder, and plan accordingly. Scout the map, be more aggressive. Don’t let the opponent turtle and boom.
I agree on some maps making a slight change to the wonder victory to make it a bit more difficult, but no drastic changes are necessary in my opinion.
My opinion - 1v1 - 10 minute wonder victory, 2v2, 15 minute, 3v3, 20 minute, and 4v4 25 minutes.
My got, wonder win is ok, only maps like forest or that map with ultra big hills is broken. Sometimes it will generate impregnable fortress and you cant use trebutchet, because its too high and oponnent can snipe you easily,
and he got nice defend bonus. Let wonder be wonder, just maps are sick and without water.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t the ability to simplyy turn off the wonder victory condition in the match settings basically make this whole thread moot? Except for maybe some kind of scaling time/cost option on team games. I mean really though, if you don’t like wonder victories just turn them off and play without them. Seems pretty simple to me, and probably not worth troubling the devs over
What if instead on team games you need more wonders to activate the win condition. Say you need two players to build a wonder in 3v3 and 4v4 or everyone on the team to build a wonder. Or even increase the wonder victory time and each successive wonder reduces the victory timer.
