Rename civilizations

You should probably be more concerned they referred to the Abbasids as a dynasty rather than a caliphate but meh…
My point is if you are calling some civs with Sultanate or Empire you might as well slap a kingdom/republic/commune/horde/tribe and whatever else while you are at it.


We need a debate between him and whoever they got to advise Relic on the naming conventions.
Very interesting read.


Why? They were a dynasty.

Abbasid dynasty - Wikipedia.

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If that so then every Chinese dynasty should be a faction on its own if we are making factions based on dynasties lol.

Remember what I said about consistency?


This is the problem with history.
It hardly is consistent. We can’t neatly cubby hole every ethnic group or empire or political entity.

At least for china we have a very specific geographical area to refer to.
The Abbasid dynasty? that’s like the entire middle east and central asia.


I literally just told you if we named the Abbasid as a caliphate instead of dynasty that would solve the naming issue lol.

This isn’t complicated, lol. its very simple.


As I understand it, the Dynasty refers to the ruling family themselves and not the people, similar to how we call the Romans the Romans and not the “Julio-Claudian Dynasty” which refers to the ruling family of the first set of emperors from Augustus to Nero.

Similarly, the game has already defined a “Dynasty” in the way that the Chinese civ uses the term. If anything other than the Abbasids, a far more accurate and immersive name would be the “Abbasid Caliphate”.

Not only is that the common term for them, but Dynasty is a Greek word while Caliphate came into English through Arabic, so using that word would allow the civ to speak its own language and call itself by its own name. Those little nuggets of flavor really help a civ feel unique and immersive.

In a game that strives to be historically accurate and immersive, these details are super important. The Abbasid Dynasty is anglicized and watered down. Caliphate works far better and signals immediately to players that the civ is from a slightly different realm.



In modern setting its like saying you declare war on the Obama family in the whitehouse instead of you know… declaring war on the United States of America.

Yeah sure Obama is president but the country is the target not the family in question.

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I don’t mind calling it Abbasid Caliphate.
My problem is referring to the many peoples they ruled as “abbasids”.

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if we can call the many chinese dynasties chinese then we can call the abbasid caliphate the abbasids lol.


Yes, I understand where you are going. I am not aware of a better term for the people (due to my own poor understanding of history). I believe the “Abbasids” may be a term used enough (at least in modern english) to cover the people well enough.


Everyone within this region will disagree with you on that.

As stated, Persia, Lebanon, Cyprus, Egypt, Armenia, etc all have very unique identities that existed before the Abbasids ruled them and they continued way after.

Hell we see their unique identities even during the medieval era.

There was no such thing as lebanon or cyprus national identity back in those days.
And this doesn’t answer the crux of the issue that we are generalizing some groups under one name while not others.

Anyway if you haven’t gotten it until now I doubt you ever will.
We get it the Abbasid identity is super duper important to you.

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Bye! I have lost interest in speaking with you.
Especially because I’ve lived in both of those countries and know their history.

Yeah that was plainly obvious how you were ready to generalize other nations but not when it came to the ones that you are personally vested in :grin:

Bye Felicia ~

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Because “England” and “France” weren’t specific enough?
Honestly your stake in this makes no sense, especially for someone that “didn’t want to waste their evening talking about this”

Because the game calls them french and english lmao.

Even though the ethnicity and self identification of these peoples are far far more complex. But yeah we gotta have the Abbasid dynasty for the Lebanese historical self identification in the high middle ages :rofl:

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From the dates the game is showing in the website we get:

Civilization Start End
Holy Roman Empire 936 1517
Delhi Sultanate 879 1526
Abbasid Caliphate 750 1517
English 850 1555
French 840 1559
Rus 882 1552
Chinese 907 1644
Mongols 1000 1500

Mongols are the shortest lived spanning only 500 years.
The earliest one we have are the Abbasid starting from 750
The latest one are the HRE starting in 936 and the chinese ending in 1644

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Oh definitely. I’ve never said England, France or China were completely homogenous.

And yet somehow you are ok with the homogenized misnomers. But whatever bro.
If you are going to be a hypocrite, just be one. But don’t pretend you are trying to be impartial.
Be proud! wear it like a badge of honor!

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