yeah, the sad part is this DLC is selling well despite all the controversies it brings up. I guess that’s the reason why they didn’t even try to communicate at all and why would they if it is selling well?. This is it, aoe 2 is definitely straying from its path for sure, soon we will see bronze age civs in ranked and lobby with hero units all over the place. Of course, there are people who bought the DLC just for jurchen and khitan but that doesn’t help neither because the dev will take notice and continue to release bronze age civs or political factions like 3K in the future as long as they sneak one or two actual medieval civs as bundle…
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People should auto-quit if the 3K Civilisations are selected for the ranked MP play..
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I don’t know if this has been said but even though, Korea is split between the north and south, both groups still view each other as Koreans. The governmental split hasn’t been long enough for both groups to view themselves differently. I say this because the split is political and both haven’t develop / adopt a new identity (civ).
Before the USA, it was just 13 English colonies. The 13 colonies split away and formed its independence. Now at what point did the people stop being English? If the colonies lost the war, they could be considered English traitors (not Americans); they’re still English even after the split. As of today, the people of the USA don’t see themselves as English.
I guess this really depends on whether the people viewed themselves as a separate group and that generational offspring no longer holds such an identity due to developing their own.
This game is called Age of Empires, not Age of Civilization.
I don’t understand why you keep harping on about civilization theory, or if you simply hate modern-day China.
The military units of the Three Kingdoms period were indeed unique, and the nation was indeed stronger than most European nations at the time.
The territory was also larger, and the historical records were more detailed.
If you want to maintain your so-called historical perspective and balance,
American civilizations like the Aztecs shouldn’t exist.
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I’d dispute that. They were different named, but not unique enough to be different units.
The fact that almost all the 3K UUs are heavily inaccurate/taken from other peoples shows there’s nothing unique there to use.
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Wonder why they called it the aztec empire.
Chinese are the only continues civilization in the world as far as I know.
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Jian swordsman
(20 characters)
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As a civilization yes. As a state no.
I wonder where is the Celtic empire.
Even the name refers to the civilization or ethnicity, not the state. You have Britons, not Kingdom of England. You have Franks, not the Carolingian Empire, or the French Kingdom; Byzantines, not Eastern Roman Empire (Basileia ton Rhomaion); etc.
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Well, then I have no idea how to fix that…
Of course, they would be like Canada… that is, they call themselves “British” but with some more “American” differences…
But your own argument disproves you right there:
All Byzantines were Romans.
Not all Romans were Byzantines.
Therefore a split of Roman/Byzantine makes sense only along imperial borders (not ethnical) which we have ingame…
I was arguing for the civ use. They choose the civ, not the state.
If the Three Kingdoms were to receive the improvements they deserved, it would require renaming each Civ and removing Hero Units.
For example:
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Wei could be changed its name to “Cathay”, an old-fashioned name for the regimes of North China.
It could represent not only the Wei dynasty of the Three Kingdoms, but also the Western Chin dynasty, the various regimes that existed in Northern China during the Age of “The Five Barbarians and the Sixteen Kingdoms”, and the Northern dynasties during the Northern and Southern dynasties period. -
Wu could be changed its name to “Mangi” or “Manzi”, an old-fashioned name for the regimes of South China.
It could represent any regime that existed in the Kiangnan region, including the “Six Dynasties”, whose capital was in what is now Nanking. -
Shu could also be renamed “Pa-Shu” or “Szechwanese”, and could represent the various regimes that once existed in southwestern China around the Szechwan Basin.
I believe that these Civs were created to represent Sinic civilizations, for better or worse, so I am opposed to simply modifying them to represent non-Han Civs.
If we need the Civs like Tibetans, Tanguts, or Pais (Dablit Guaif, also called Ta-li or Dali Kingdom), it would be better to create them separately.
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FE did it first, mistaking Xianbei for Wei. They’d need to lose the UU and wonder (or is it the castle?)
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Jin, Khitan same. Frank split it to holy empire, and frenh and ??? 
chan name Britton to ??? Change name teuton to ??? Change name slav to ??? Persia to ???
Good idea. But I should point out that Mangi or Manzi is abuse name. Nangia(南家), Wuyue(吴越) or Wu’er(吴儿) is better.
Both Dali and Nanzhao were multi-ethnic kingdom, I suggest to use Yunnanese, Yinas(a Loloish/Yi language word which means Yunnan and Guizhou), Cuan-bos(爨僰) or Jangs(a Tibetan and Mongolian word that means Yunnanese, Jang was metioned as Qarajang/哈剌章 and CaγanJang/察罕章 in The travels of Marco Polo and Jāmi’ al-Tawārikh) instead of Bais.
As far as I know, in the game they have tried to portray the Burgundians, not only as the French house, but as the Burgudian-Netherland kingdom (named also “Burgundian State”) that existed between 1384–1482.
Technically, the House of Burgundy seized control of the Low Countries from the HRE over inheritance issues and various skirmishes, becoming a power to be feared in Latte Middle Ages.
And worse, this same Burgundian dynasty claimed to remain French in order to “assassinate” the entire Arggañac line and then seize “hereditarily” continental France. That’s why they were allied with the English.
The thing is, the Burgundian campaign “doesn’t mention it” because “IT’S ALL NARROWED BY A LYING POLITICIAN” who speaks Machiavellianly and says everything to pretend they’re a noble house hundreds of years old… when in fact, they’re just a French house, which accumulated so much power that they separated from France and want all the power for themselves.
This is the reason why 1 of their unique units is a Netherland unit (Flemish Militia) from Flemish.
They were destroyed by the Swiss in 1482, and their territories become part of the Hamburg Dynasty of the HRE. The french part of their territories become part of French aggain.
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About the correct name for the game… Burgundian is fine?
Overall, because the game was created with the idea of “keeping things simple,” in 1998 the quality of the graphics allowed enough “suspension of disbelief” on our part to accept things like Huns with Paladins, or Aztecs with Halberdiers and Swordsmen.
It was also allowed to have “Placeholder” civs in the campaign, such as the Poles and Lithuanians represented as “Teutons” in the Vanilla Mongol Campaign (1998), or the Burgundians as French in the Joan of Arc campaign.
This being the case, it’s understandable why it’s shocking to some that civs have been created that were previously filled by other placeholder civs, as is the case with Burgundian.
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It’s because Wei is using the Xianbei as mercenaries.
Normally, this would have been accepted before in AoE2, because in the future, if the Xianbei wanted to be a proper civ, they couldn’t use their proper Unique Unit, because other civs used it that way.
But anyway, I suppose if they release a civs named “The Xianbei”, the Xianbei Raider would become a “regional” unit for Wei and them, and not a unique one (luckily, they didn’t produce it in the castle).
On the overall topic, I think the names of the three civs: Wei, Wu, and Shu, are fine.
They represent well the bonuses that the three initial rulers of the three kingdoms instilled in them. Those names are very known in China, and I don’t see why they shouldn’t be.
Another thing is that these civs aren’t normal civs, but VARIANTS of China. And yes, it must be said, they are “Variants”. The thing is, unlike AoE 4, where they were announced as such and then people complained about the lack of historicity, here they were never announced as variants, which I think was a mistake.
I guess the devs didn’t think it was important, but it was.
Especially considering this game has a long tradition of naming Civs by “ethnic or racial names,” rather than empires; and using a civ multiple times, even as a “Placeholder” to represent civs that haven’t been released yet or don’t exist yet:
- Such as the Poles and Lithuanians represented as “Teutons” in the Vanilla Mongol Campaign (1999)
- The Burgundians as French in the Joan of Arc campaign (1999).
- Muslim armies of Almohades and Almoravids in El Cid campaign as the “Sarracens” (2000)
Now that in the Definitive version, more civs can be created with new expansions, many placeholder civs could be replaced with their closest approximation (Burgundian, Lithuanians, hungarian, Bereber, etc).
The only problem i encounter with the Wei Wu and Shu variants are those:
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Variants not announced as such. These three civs from the medieval Chinese period were announced as variants of classical China, so it’s normal for people to find it strange to see a civ that is also, in theory, Chinese.
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Placeholder elements in a variant civ. Then, since they didn’t find enough elements to give them a Keep, a Wonder, and other features of the era they represent, they added elements from civs that would eventually occupy their territory or be their successors (Wei with Xianbei Wonder, because “Northern Wei”).
At least for the Wei Wonder, they could choose another type of building, a Cao Cao palace, or something like that. In AoE4, they’ve been very creative with several Wonders.
In fact, the “Bronze Bird Terrace” would be a perfect landmark for Wei. They say they used it as a model for the Castle, but the castle doesn’t have a name, and now they can easily function as one of the complex’s keeps, as long as the Wonder is the central building.
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All I call for is for these three civs to get moved to The Chronicles game mode.
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