Hey, I know that revolutions are very niche on Meta (most of them), but the new designs of Mexico revolutions had brought very interesting concepts. Also I know that making a balanced approach with all the decks, civ differences and also viable revolutions is very hard, but let’s try to bring some ideas. This would be the summary of the revs right now:
Argentina:
Cow economy
Artillery
Barbary States
Outlaws
Sea
North African allies
Brazil
Trash war
Dragoons
Canada
Nature/Eco?
Natives
Chile
Death Hussars
Sea
Egypt
Mills/states
Elite units
Mercenaries
Finland
Natural resources/Torps
Blockhouses
Hibrid villager
Gran Colombia
Bolivar
Balanced
Musks
Haiti
Pirates (Shock Infantry)
Gold
Sea
Hungary/Romania
Turtle
Spawn units on fortifications
Ethnic units
USA
Forts
Gatlings
Peru
Good revolutionaries
South Africa
Good Eco
This a little my summary. How we could revamp them? Various crazy ideas:
Adding existing cards to the revs decks. Devs did it with Chile. They can be generic, cards that the original already civ already had (so you have to plan to not pick them) or they could even mix with other civs cards: For example, adding Haciendas to all spanish south/central american revolutions.
Mix roosters, like Mexican Cuirassiers or USA Uhlan.
Very crazy: revolution age avaliable on 3 age. It has sense thematically (most revolutions started at the same time of Industrial Age, not after). And allow a real use for the rev deck.
Settlers should be trainable without card (still an all-in)
Some civs could have acces to Imperial units others to capital eco techs via card.
Additional
Also a revolution game mode when revolution is the final age, and you only can select european civs.
New skins for all the revolutionary variants
Haiti seriously needs revamping. The Haitians didn’t revolt from the French in the late 18th/early 19th century to become 17th century pirates.
They should get: Toussaint Louverture - Mounted Leader unit Haitian Infantry - Musketeers Haitian Chassuers - Skirmishers with Stealth Ability Guerillas - Melee Shock Infantry with Stealth Ability Vodou Shaman - Healer unit (Vodou was a substantial element in the background of the revolution - the Haitians wanted to get rid of the forced Catholicism from the French and be free to make Vodou (Voodoo) the predominate religion) Lakous Wagons - wagons that build a Lakous (self-sufficient family compounds)- which ingame would be a large structure of connected houses (providing more pop than standard houses) as well as farming space within for villagers to farm food. Like a scaled-down Hacienda.
With Age of Revolution Card: Ships 10 semi-fattened Cows, 1 Gaucho, and 2 Homestead Wagon; Cow train limit +10
Granaderos: Ships 10 Cows and 10 Mounted Granaderos; Cow train limit +10; Mounted Granaderos can be trained at Stables, Forts, Tavern, and Galleons; Incendiary Grenades available at Arsenal
Argentine Mortars: Ships 1 Mortar; Upgrade Mortars to Imperial Howitzers
4 Gatling Guns: Ships 4 Gatling Guns
With Age of Revolution Card: Ships 5 Gatling Guns; Allows you to create them in fortresses and artillery foundries.
16 Revolutionaries: Ships 16 Revolutionaries
With Age of Revolution Card: Ships 20 Revolutionaries; Allows to promote this unit (25% health and damage)
2 Ironclads: Ships 2 Ironclads
With Age of Revolution Card: Ships 2 Ironclads; Allows you to create them on the docks.
1 Fort Wagon: Ships 1 Fort Wagon; Fort build limit +1
With Age of Revolution Card: Ships 1 Fort Wagon; Fort build limit +1; Allows the explorer to build them.
Citizenship: Ships 6 Citizens (Settlers) and allows them to be trained at Town Centers for 70 coin; Fishing Boats can be trained at Docks.
Argentina + Age of Revolution Card.
Argentinian Barbecue: Livestock pens automatically gathers up to 5 fattened livestock in a radius of 20; Livestock fattens 15% faster when tasked to livestock pens.
Fulling Mills: Settlers gather from livestock 300% faster.
Stockyards: Livestocks fatten 30% faster when tasked to Livestock Pens, Farms, and Villages.
Food Silos: Settlers gather from Mills, Farms, Rice Paddies (food), and Fields (food) 15% faster
Sustainable Agriculture: Settlers gather from Mills, Farms, and Rice Paddies (food) 15% faster.
Refrigeration: Settlers gather food 20% faster.
Argentinian Ranching: Livestock Pens can train Cows and the cattle are trained with 100 starting food.
Presidential Cavalry: Upgrades all cavalry to Guard (if not already); cavalry can be upgraded to Imperial; Costs 2,000 food, 2,000 coin.
Presidential Artillery: Upgrades all Artillery to Guard (if not already); Artillery can be upgraded to Imperial; Costs 2,000 food, 2,000 coin.
Maestranza Luis Beltrán: Foundries and Factories produce artillery 30% faster.
Cards for all Hispanic revolutions.
Age of Revolution: Advance your revolution to a new age that allows you to send powerful cards; costs 1,810 food, 1,819 wood, 1,822 coin.
The following cards would be unlocked after using the Age of Revolution card.
Economic Theory: Settlers, Fishing Boats, and Caravels gather 10% faster.
Factory: Ships 1 Factory Wagon.
Robber Barons: Ships 1 Factory Wagon.
Advanced Industry: Factories get +100% hit points and are repaired for free; Cannery, Water Power, Steam Power, Mass Production and Imperial Cannon upgrades are free.
Hot Air Balloons: The Explorer can summon a Hot Air Balloon to explore the map for a limited time.
Advanced Balloon: Ships an Advanced Hot Air Balloon.
Liberation March: Infantry, cavalry, and Shock Infantry get +5% speed and -35% train time.
Old Guard: Allows you to recruit Soldados in the barracks and fortresses.
Legacy Arsenal: Professional Gunners, Trunion, Pillage, Military Drummers, Flint Lock, and Paper Cartridge available at available at Arsenal technologies are free.
That Age of Revolution idea is good, elimanting a lot of work between Spanish revolutions. I won’t add Advanced Industry, and maybe some other cards could be added.
Presidential Artillery and Cavalry is a good way to show the focus of Argentina on Cav and Art.
With Age of Revolution Card: Ships 10 semi-fattened Cows, 1 Gaucho, and 2 Homestead Wagon; Cow train limit +10
Morochucos: Ships 10 Cows and 10 Morochucos (Comancheros with a ranged attack firing in bursts, cost 120 food, uses 1 population, can build Livestock Pens, train Cows, and gather from livestock); Upgrades Comancheros to Morochucos and allows them to be trained at Stable, Fort, Galleon, and Tavern; Cow train limit +10
4 Gatling Guns: Ships 4 Gatling Guns.
With Age of Revolution Card: Ships 5 Gatling Guns; Allows you to create them in fortresses and artillery foundries.
With Age of Revolution Card: Ships 20 Revolutionaries; Allows to promote this unit (25% health and damage)
2 Ironclads: Ships 2 Ironclads.
With Age of Revolution Card: Ships 2 Ironclads; Allows you to create them on the docks.
1 Fort Wagon: Ships 1 Fort Wagon; Fort build limit +1
With Age of Revolution Card: Ships 1 Fort Wagon; Fort build limit +1; Allows the explorer to build them.
Peruvian Guard: Upgrade Revolutionaries to Peruvian Guards with a secondary grenade attack; ships 10 Peruvian Guards.
Andean Warriors: Ships 6 Legendary Huaracas.
With Age of Revolution Card: Ships 15 Legendary Huaracas; Allows you to recruit them in the barracks and fortresses. (Has no effect on other revolutions)
Citizenship: Ships 6 Citizens (Settlers) and allows them to be trained at Town Centers for 70 coin; Fishing Boats can be trained at Docks.
Perú + Age of Revolution Card.
Hand Mortar: Upgrade Revolutionaries to Peruvian Guards with a hand mortar, which quickly propels explosives; Peruvian Guards get +2 LOS and range; Allows Incendiary Grenades to be researched at the Arsenal; Lose secondary grenade attack. (This card replaces Peruvian Guard)
Terrace Farming: Villagers gather food from (Farms/Mills) and coin from Estates 20% faster; Farm/Mills and Estate build time -75%, and their technologies are researched four times as fast.
Extensive Fortifications: Outposts get +25% hit points and +100% build limit.
Inca Walls: Walls get +415% hit points and +300% build time. (The appearance of the walls changes to resemble that of the Incas)
Feitorias: Causes your Town Centers to slowly generate resources; 0.6 Food, 0.3 Wood, 0.3 Coin, 0.3 XP per second (1.5 total per Town Center)
Presidential Infantry: Upgrades all Infantry to Guard (if not already); Infantry can be upgraded to Imperial; Costs 2,000 food, 2,000 coin.
2 Covered Wagon: Ships 2 Covered Wagon; Town Center build limit +2
Improved Buildings: Buildings get +40% hit points.
Advanced Frontier Defenses: Ships 3 Outpost Wagons and gives Frontier Outposts and Blockhouses.
Peninsular Guerrillas: Ranged infantry get +20% attack and Skirmishers now see the LOS of enemies they attacked for 3 seconds
Ranged Infantry Hitpoints: Ranged infantry get +25% more hit points.
Monumental Architecture: Buildings get +45% hit points; Town Centers get +35% attack.
Town Militia: Town Centers get +50% attack and can use Colonial Militia.
Cards for all Hispanic revolutions.
Age of Revolution: Advance your revolution to a new age that allows you to send powerful cards; costs 1,810 food, 1,819 wood, 1,822 coin.
The following cards would be unlocked after using the Age of Revolution card.
Economic Theory: Settlers, Fishing Boats, and Caravels gather 10% faster.
Factory: Ships 1 Factory Wagon.
Robber Barons: Ships 1 Factory Wagon.
Hot Air Balloons: The Explorer can summon a Hot Air Balloon to explore the map for a limited time.
Advanced Balloon: Ships an Advanced Hot Air Balloon.
Liberation March: Infantry, cavalry, and Shock Infantry get +5% speed and -35% train time.
Old Guard: Allows you to recruit Soldados in the barracks and fortresses.
Legacy Arsenal: Professional Gunners, Trunion, Pillage, Military Drummers, Flint Lock, and Paper Cartridge available at available at Arsenal technologies are free.
Notes:
At the request of the theme creator remove the Advanced Industries card.
The Inca Walls card is not an equipment card.
The Peruvian guard with the Hand Mortar card costs 150 food and 2 population.
I don’t think the developers will take my ideas, but I hope this inspires them to do something with the existing revolutions, or at least add more revolutions.
I always hope that the options for the revolution mechanic should be the same as the politicians, which each civilization fairly have the same number. Since the Spanish have 5 options, every European civ else should have 5 too.
The French got a new revolutionary option, which is a good step forward.
I like this general idea with Argentina. Some feedback, thinking about historical relevance and game balance:
I’d really like to see less reliance on the generic revolution cards from AOE3 classic. Cards like INF Gatling Guns and INF Ironclads in particular are so US-focused and really doesn’t fit in the the Latin American nations, IMO. I’d remove these and redo the military cards.
The INF forts card seems to be a critical balance point. It’s such a strong defensive card that the devs feel like they have to #### the offensive capabilities of the revolution to accommodate it. It fits for the USA and Mexico given the British and French empires’ constant warfare and fort-building. It fits very well with the Central European civs given the constant warfare with the Turks, and should absolutely be a feature of Hungary and Romania. It doesn’t really fit for New Spain, Brazil, or Indonesia. I’d remove it for Argentina.
Your Argentina design is very, very similar to Mexico’s California revolution. In fact, it’s so close that I think it lacks its own uniqueness to set it apart. I would NOT give Argentina (or any of the Latin American countries, especially Brazil) 3 factories. It is too powerful and none of these countries historically invested heavily in manufactured goods. Their economies were overwhelmingly focused on producing raw goods and exporting them to Europe’s factories well into the 20th century. 2 factories, or even just 1, is plenty sufficient to represent native industry in most of these countries as long as for balance reasons, they get cards that boost their raw production from mills and estates.
Economically for Argentina, I’d give them farming and ranching upgrades, and give them mint and textile mills for estates for gold. I’d build their unique revolution units heavily around a food economy, similar to how they are now. No mining upgrades, that was more Bolivia and they left early on post-revolution. No wood upgrades other than Spain’s baseline. Leave that for Brazil. Perhaps some trade post wagons to represent trade with Europe (maybe). Haciendas and Barbacoa need to be in the mix for Argentina as well to automate livestock production and harvest.
Argentina needs some sort of direct callback to Italian immigration. One might consider touching on British and German immigration as well, but Argentina needs a clear feeling of Spanish and Italian influence. I’d suggest some sort of Italian immigrants card to rapidly rebuilt the villager population post-revolt and adding Italian mercs to represent them.
I really don’t like the concept of the two-tiered revolution for Argentina. It works for French because the French Revolution lead eventually to Napoleon’s rise to power. It doesn’t fit with Argentina’s history which had a revolt, civil wars, and foreign wars for like 50 years. A better way to represent that might be to give them Imperial Cav and Artillery, and allow their revolutionaries to get promotions. I don’t want to give them a strong infantry focus, this helps represent the constant fighting.
Re: the Mapuche. There’s a temptation to give them access to native Mapuche. It doesn’t fit. They didn’t exactly live in harmony and certainly were far more likely to fight one another than to fight with one another. Supplemental units should be focused on mercenaries, avoiding outlaws and native tribes. This better represents the waves of European immigration that built its population in the post-revolutionary period.
I cannot find much about a navy in my quick search, but I do know that maritime trade was of great importance, and that should be reflected in a strong water game. I would let Chile have a stronger navy and maritime economy (fishing and whaling), but make Argentina respectable on water maps.
It’s your opinion and I respect it, but I reaffirm my right to comment by replying anyway. XD
I think the Gatling machine gun is a reference to the fact that Argentina bought 3 or 4 for a territorial dispute with Chile.
Wikipedia quote Chile-Argentina border dispute
In April 1867, Minister Domingo Faustino Sarmiento bought a Gatling gun by order of President Bartolomé Mitre. And, already president, between 1868 and 1874, he acquired three more.
Regarding the Ironclad, I believe it is a reference or homage to Admiral Brown.
Wikipedia quote
In 1878, Argentina made inquiries in Britain to buy a new, ocean-going capital ship for its navy, which to that point, had consisted of only coastal and riverine forces, centered on the two small El Plata-class monitors. Almirante Brown, the first large ironclad of the Argentine Navy, was ordered from the Samuda Brothers shipyard of London. She was launched on 6 October 1880, and cost the Argentine government £270,000. On 14 June 1881, she conducted speed trials on the Maplin Mile, and achieved her designed speed of 14 knots at full power. Upon her delivery to Argentina, she was the largest vessel in the Argentine fleet, and remained so until the four Garibaldi-class armored cruisers were acquired in the late 1890s. Almirante Brown was present during the ceremonies for the opening of the south basin in the harbor of Buenos Aires on 28 January 1889.
Clarification.
The reason I’m asking that we build them is just so we don’t rely on shipping and give rev players a reason to keep worrying about the economy.
Sources:
It is acceptable if in exchange, the South American countries get two cards, one so that the explorer can build fortresses and the second one that allows us to build fortines, an equivalent to the Russian Blockhouse.
Wikipedia quote
Although there never seems to have been a single model for all forts, they used to be built in the following way: located on the highest ground, a rustic palisade of logs arranged vertically (“palo a pique”) such a palisade was often the only Perimeter “wall”, rectangular wall that surrounded an enclosure of about 100 to 500 m², inside the enclosure there were ranches that served as stables and barracks, such ranches were generally the home of the officers or the commander fortinero, the barracks of the troops, an arsenal, a rudimentary prison or cell, a food warehouse, a stable, more rarely there was a chapel, an infirmary and even a grocery store. Inside the enclosure there was a corral for the horses and a mangrullo (watchtower no more than ten meters high, almost always made of logs and sometimes covered by a ######## roof), a small cannon was used with the pretense of instilling fear in possible attackers, although most of the time their salvos were used as a “telegraph” to give signals to other forts.
The perimeter wall, if the ground allowed it, was surrounded by a ditch as wide and deep as possible to stop or hinder the onslaught of forces on horseback.
The perimeter fences of logs in the Chaco forts were not vertical, but sloped over the moat to prevent them from being climbed by attackers.
Sources:
I think you are confused, argentina does not have access to 3 factories, it only has access to 2, I assume you saw the advanced factories card and thought that it gave you an extra factory, but no, the only thing it does is reduce the chances of losing the existing factories.
I also ask you not to compare a revolution that focuses on the use of haciendas and mining, with one that focuses on cavalry, cattle, artillery and food production.
A moment ago you were saying that my interpretation was too similar to the Californian revolution and now you say that we should add haciendas to them, add that I literally put cards with altered effects to automate the collection of food in the corrals precisely to avoid using the haciendas.
Sounds like a good idea to me, maybe a settler card for every revolutionary lost up to a maximum of 99?
Do you understand that this is to balance the revolution and not to represent a historical fact? the reason for using a card that allows you to advance a revolution is just to prevent players from abusing this strategy.
Question, where did I put allies mapuche?
If you really care that Argentina is well represented, then you should ask that Argentina be a complete civilization, the revolutions are something to give variety to the game, it does not have the intention of being a representation of the civilization in which they are based, and I say as a fan of the revolutions.
