Hi everyone! I started this thread to discuss the Samurai unit specifically. After the November 20th patch, Japan suffered a significant nerf to the Bushido system’s XP gain, including the arrival of the latest upgrade (Hatamoto). Do you think it should be nerf a bit? Or should the minor deities’ techs be adjusted?
I think it gains too much HP, and the Hannya Mask, or whatever it’s called, of Raijin (15% HP + life steal), should be nerfed or changed. What do you think? Do you think it’s okay or does it need some adjustments?
My only problem with samurai is their speed. Whoever is playing against mass samurai needs to micro his archers perfectly cause if not they will easily catch up and destroy everthing while the japanese player can Attack move and sit back.
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From my point of view, they are not very fast units. They have 4.2, which is the average for all infantry units. In fact, other units are faster than the samurai.
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Their speed is simply insane for a unit that can defeat any enemy if it manages to reach him.
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I still think they are fast. I don’t play much but from the pro tournaments that I have seen they always seem to be dangerously close to archers that are being microd perfectly.
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Most infantry units are faster than archers. Its easier to list the ones that arent than the ones that are. It does force the shoot and scoot type of gameplay that some people dony enjoy so i do frequently see people getting tired and just taking fights in their face they shouldnt and just go downhill from there.
I’ve noticed that if the archer is in melee range, he’s always destroyed quickly by any type of generalist infantry (archers have low HP and low defenses by default). I think they become too tanky with techs. In my opinion, Hannya Mask is too strong a tech for a Heroic Age God (it looks like a Mythic Age God upgrade). 10% life steal isn’t much, but 15% more HP is too much for me! If you play Amaterasu, she basically has 10% from the Miko Goddess, Hannya Mask 15% + life steal, and Sumo 20% with Takemizauchi. Amaterasu also has a 1% regen bonus in combat. It seems a bit too much to me.
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The the infantry stacking upgrades sure make it good. I Wonder of now that bushido is slower we get to see more fights on equal terms and not Samurai one line upgrade above their opponent
The nerf to Bushido is aimed at Amaterasu; now, if you want to increase your Bushido, you have to fight! Before, having five samurai in your base would boost it dramatically. I’ve run tests, and only samurai, shinobi, and onna get higher bonuses in combat. Non-dojo units get a 1x bonus while fighting, dojo units get 1.25x, and mythical units with Susanoo get 2.0x.
From the games I’ve played, it’s much slower, and if you don’t raid, your Bushido doesn’t increase as much as it used to (with Amaterasu, it’s practically halved from 2.00 per second to 1.00 per inactivity).
Yea thats what i meant, now we are able to se more of the unit itself than all the strengh it got from the other things liek being up in line upgrades consistently
Thinking in numbers.
2 Murmilloni, 320 max upgraded (no minor god buffs that increase HP)
1 Samurai, 276 HP (no minor god buffs)
1 Samurai with Katagi (10%) = 295 HP
1 Samurai with Hannya (15%) and Katagi (10%)= 323 HP (Add 20 HP average health drain for 9 hits, including special move on a hoplite, 56% armor hack, 10 seconds of combat 343 Hp)
1 Samurai with all minor buffs including Sumo (10%+15%+20%) = 361 HP (add 20 HP health drain 381 HP)
Hatamoto Samurai with all minor buffs = 389.5 HP + 20 HP (life drain) + 10 HP (Amaterasu bonus for 10 seconds in combat) = 420 HP
It seems that without at least two buffs, it isn’t as cost-effective in terms of HP as two Murmillos.
What do you think?
Havent done the math before, good to know. Las time i clashed them against other units they beat all non specilialized anti infantry but that didnt take into account mixed army comps or anything else.
It for sure is strong when a unit gets several unique tech buffs, specially if they stack.
With Amaterasu, the samurai has all the maximum upgrades obtainable and becomes very, very tanky in terms of HP.
Other pantheons also have maximum upgrades for a type of unit like Odin’s Jarls, Ra’s Camels, Thor’s Berserkers, and so on.
I considered 2 murmilli because they cost 2 population each and the samurai cost 4. However, he is classified as elite infantry, so I think he needs hard counterattacks and not soft counterattacks like simple archers or axe throwers (remember that for infantry it is not a hard contract).
I think that a slight nerf to some technologies won’t completely destroy him. Like 5% HP from some technologies. In terms of damage levels, it’s not excessive considering what the other elite troops do, how much he costs, and how long it takes to train him.
Wirh the recent nerfs might be good to see for a but longer how its plays out. You might be right and that would be a gods way to adress her if her Samurai are stacking up too greatly. But it could also come the scenario when the other civs can adress them properly now.
A lot has changed for Samurai both directly and indirectly.
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How can be it targeted towards amaterasu when it affects all other gods?
It affects all gods but is targeted at Amaterasu because Amaterasu is the only goddess who increases the bushido of Samurai and Onna by 300% when they’re not fighting (4x). They changed the value for all gods from 0.5 to 0.25 per second.
Amaterasu pre nerf have 2x
Now she has 1x, practically half as much!
If you notice, each deity has their own way of increasing bushido, and Amaterasu relies heavily on the bushido gained by keeping Samurai and Onna stationary. The other nerf is while they’re fighting, but the value is the same for all gods (damage dealt x 1.25).
It’s not that it’s targeted, it’s a consequence for Amaterasu.
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It affects all gods but it affects amaterasu the most. Even thou her dijo units gather more bushido, thats her only way of doing it, the others have alternative options that werent affected by the nerf.
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