Saracens, Monks and Illumination

A few of my suggestions for Saracens and related general changes, for Monks and Illumination.


  • Monk

    Base faith regeneration rate changed from 62 seconds to 60 seconds.

  • Illumination

    Effect changed:

    From: Monks regain their faith in 33 seconds ((old) base 62 seconds) (~88% faster).

    To: Monks regain their faith in 40 seconds ((new) base 60 seconds) (50% faster).

    Research Cost changed: From 120 gold to 200 gold.

    (This is more of set up for the following, but I think Monks could get a tiny adjustment to their faith regeneration. There might be a reason for why they are at their current values, but Illumination currently offers 88% faster faith regeneration, while advertising 50% faster. I’d set the base regeneration rate at a round 60 seconds and the effect of Illumination at the advertised 50% faster; 40 seconds recharge time. I’d also increase the price a tiny bit, as the tech is rather cheap for its effect.)


  • Zealotry: Removed

  • Civilization bonus changed from ”Camel units +10 HP” to ”Camel units +25% HP”.

  • (Elite) Mameluke base HP changed from 65 (80 elite) → 60 (88 elite)
    With the HP bonus: (75 (90 elite) → 75 (110 elite)

  • Elite Mameluke upgrade cost changed from 600 food 500 gold to 1000 food 950 gold.

    (Saracens have been recently explored with a new or more reinforced identity as a Camel civ, with changes to their bonuses, unique techs and their unique unit, Mameluke. I find this nice, but I feel the chopping up of Zealotry wasn’t the way to go. Camels are already very specialized - performing about the same as Light Cavalry vs non-cavalry and buildings, while having a higher price tag. I’d rather see Zealotry turned into their civ bonus, with a few tweaks, to make it more streamlined to use their camel units.
    I’d make the HP bonus percentage based, as it aligns nicely with the intended values already, and allows for natural staggering of the effect, based on unit upgrades. I’d then adjust Mameluke to have the same HP as it does currently in Castle Age, while increasing the HP of Elite Mameluke, so it also remains the same as the current fully upgraded one. To compensate for the change, I’d increase the cost of Elite Mameluke upgrade.)

  • (New) Madrasah reintroduced as Castle Age unique technology.

  • Effect: Monks regain their faith 100% faster after a successful conversion. (30 seconds instead of 60.)

  • Cost: 300 food 300 gold

  • Research time: 65 seconds

  • Can no longer research Illumination.

    (Saracens are known as a Monk civ. The removal of Madrasah didn’t really affect them, but I think a Monk based unique tech could fit them, with the removal of Zealotry. One that rewards the player for keeping the monks alive instead of losing them, which is better game play anyway. The effect is perhaps uninspired, but could offer something unique that other civs wouldn’t get both in Castle and in Imperial Age, in fastest recharging Monks. Think this also fits the theme of the rapid spread and expansion of Islamic faith.)

1 Like

No reason for all these changes if you ask me, and certainly dont want madrasah back at all.


I mean the ideas aren’t too bad in theory but do we really need to nerf the monks of every civ that has illumination so that Saracens can have 145 HP camel for just the cost of bloodlines? (and no you can’t just remove bloodlines as compensation as it then gimps their hussars and cav archers)


We could just give them s bonus that scales through the ages tbh

Do they really need another buff right now?

1 Like

every single buffs for Saracens are for late Castle Age or Imperial Age in general. That’s where they don’t suffer at all. Where they suffer most is Dark Age and Feudal Age. Moreso with a very good eco civ. Big reason why Hindustani is a top dog civ mainly because of their eco bonus. Hindustani doesn’t have a super hard hitting unit like Paladin yet they are stomping. Many may argue with their Market bonus but again Market is used for eco balance in general. I just wished something changed the way their early game worked.

Saracens are able to completely skip Feudal Age because of their market, they are incredibly flexible. I think they are fine

but damaging your eco to some extent. At one point Market bonus lose its effectiveness.

How do they damage their eco though? Do you mean by selling their stone? Losing 10 gold/stone is hardly eco damage, when you can just buy it right back in Castle Age :smiley:

This is when the other bonuses come to play

The Saracen market bonus is genuinely great, it’s just that many people don’t learn to use it so Saracens are played without eco bonus more often than they should be.

1 Like

this is the prevailing consensus from people that dont fully understand how to abuse their market. nevermind simply selling your starting stone and buying food with it, you can do this with all res

in the same way you “lose” vil time and eco efficiency, essentially losing res, every moment your vils arent physically harvesting, is the same as “losing” a very small amount of res every time you use the market. for example that very stone you sold to buy food to race for castle age, you can buy it back again for an incredibly minor loss

if anything saracens dont need to necessarily made stronger, but easier to play

things like this are about the most unnecessary convoluted method of doing it. why the fixation on bringing madrash back? when it was (is) one of many of the most disliked UTs

why nerf illumination so much? both the effect and the cost? why nerf it at all?

while simultaneously re-nerfing mamelukes in 1v1 with this:

due to the higher res float needed before return on investment

1 Like