Saracens v Aztec (gold pit)

Wondering if anyone has tips on how to fight aztecs with saracens. Would think mangonel line + sword line(counters atlatl and EW) but then you’re incredibly slow and the EW can run circles around you…

mameluke is surprisingly hard countered by skirms (never thought it should be classified as an archer??)

and of course on top of that you’re contending with a vastly superior eco, the market is abusable in the start (with the stone) but falls short even faster than normal games due to the amount of gold on the map

What was your opponent’s opening, strategy, army comp? Saracens have open tech tree.

Arbalest + Siege Onager + Hussar.
Arbalest + Champion + Hand Cannoneer.
Heavy Cav Archer + Hussar.

Saracens have a lot of options, but most of tem involve Archers of some kind.
You should also make your own Skirms to fight Aztec Skirms.

try Mamelukes+onagers or Hussar


Pretty difficult civ matchup. Ideally, you wanna have hand cannoneer and hussar plus siege. It’s hard to get there because your eco is worse but generally your best option is outbooming your opponent by going on the defensive in castle age. You can open Arbalest in early imp to buy time for your strong late game composition. If you hold until that you can be in a good spot but mid and late castle age can be rough because you don’t have an answer to mass eagles, here.

If you have a bad map and expect a lot of castle age aggression you can try to mass xbows early on and break your opponent’s walls before the eagles start to flow out in higher numbers (that’s when your archers won’t cut it anymore).

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EW and skirms specifically hard counter HCA, leaving only the hussar, which is a equal match i guess?

not sure what arbalests are supposed to be doing in these match ups? since he’ll easily tank all the hits, but yeah hand cannon is good but as davyman pointed out, he will out eco me, and SPECIFICALLY gold pit i cant just boom since it means he’ll over populate that gold completely

thanks yeah definitely an option with the onagers and hussar, but it feels like mamelukes are almost useless in this match up, since skirms have like 5 more range than them, even more in imperial, like 6 more range and doing massive damage, and specifically gold pit i cant sit back and boom while he solidifies the gold…

Arbalests are great at killing Eagles, and Saracen Arbalests are great at killing buildings too.

Snipe his Barracks and Archery Ranges, and the Aztecs player will be in huge trouble.

thank man, but that doesnt happen… wtf is his army doing? and arbs good against eagles? MAYBE at critical mass, certainly not normally… 30 shoots to kill an eagle…

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Arbalest and other archers suck vs Eagles expect Chu Ko Nu

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Not when backed up by Hussars, Champions, Hand Cannoneers or Siege Onagers.
Saracens have all of these.
In fact, they only miss 4 units in Land play: Heavy Scorpion, Halberdier, Cavalier and Paladin.

ROFL but then its not the arbs doing anything vs the EW, its the “Hussars, Champions, Hand Cannoneers or Siege Onagers”

in fact 3 of those units break/define civs … halb,cav and paladin… :open_mouth:

You won’t use that deathball in 1v1 especially in Golden Pit

Eagle Warriors are a much easier transition than Hand Cannoneers because Eagles are very cheap and need less eco and Eagle Warriors beat Hussar+Arb because they are good vs Hussars with Garland Wars

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Aztecs have neither of them, and you would not say they are a weak civ, would you?

Those units define only very few civs.

Because they have an incredible economy and a cost effective alternative to knights (something fast, archer resistant with decent dps) . And the fact they don’t have halbs prevents them from being broken

Sounds to me like Halbs, Cavaliers or Paladins do not make as civ.

Cumans have all of those, yet people ask for buffs. Aztecs have neither, and some ask for nerfs.

Halb and Paladin are just units, they cannot make a civ strong on their own.
Aztec and Malian Pikes are stronger than most FU Halberdiers.

Your argument is false.